Most Wealthy Liberals Won't Back Progressive Media: Sheldon Drobny Found That Out the Hard Way

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I have on several occasions emailed MoveOn, usually in response to a pitch from the organization about tactics & strategies for the membership to support. Almost inevitably, MO's stance is one that relates to working the political system as it is, never examining the wisdom of its own internal workings. I always ask them why there appears to have been no consideration whatever to putting members' money into a counter-right wing multi-media strategy? I have never received a response back. My sense of liberal/progressive media is that of fragmentation at best, with individual practitioners scattered around to a point of being little known, however much they may be appreciated by the few. Why wouldn't it make sense to begin examining alternatives, reframing, and countering the lies of the knuckle dragging hatemongers with a concerted large scale media approach embodying values we hold in common, and the related political implications?

get you killed.....more than likely....but it is the death knell for the fascist right that we allow to scare us away.....they always attack the messenger because they fear the truth....keep hammering it like the old hitler/bush tactic 'tell a lie long enough and loud enough people will believe it" ....time to man up and give better than we get or we will become a memory with the victors to write the history of our "wrong headedness" and failure of ideas when it was only the delivery system that was wrong and a failure..

while thinks tanks are nice and i support them among other efforts to get the progressive/liberal message out.....one must fight the good fight on all fronts....but it is time to really push on the airwaves as the most bang for the buck.....i am sure their think tanks will come to that conclusion eventually....let us hope it won't be like believing billy mitchel on dec. 8, '41, or reading the threat assessment of 8/8/01 on 9/12/01

Hey wait a minute... According the right wing, George Soros already finances the entire liberal media.

lies in the fact that MOST on our side of the debate don't "get" the idea of talk radio. At The H.O.R.N. (www.headonradionetwork.com), we call it "Conversation Radio," because THAT is what works with our side. We know that it works because we've PROVEN that it works. We're older than either AAR or NovaM. Right-wing hateradio is a steady stream of snake oil hustles, patent herbal remedy nostrums and "hosts" delivering marching orders to that older, doughier, whiter demographic referenced above. That model will NEVER work for us on the scale it's worked for the right-wing. As liberals, we discuss. We don't take orders. We question authority instead of blindly following it. Any attempt to do "liberal talk" must take that into account. Fact is, right-wing hateradio is funded by more than those patent baldness cure ads, ads for swedish foam mattresses and ads for vaccuum cleaners that pick up bowling balls. There is an entire infrastructure that backs right-wing hateradio that is nowhere near developed on our side. At the H.O.R.N., we've proven our internet-only model works. People love what we do, love engaging in the conversation and contribute to keep us going so we don't have to insult them with ads screaming "BUY GOLD NOW!" We recognize and reverence the real expertise of working America; of the special skills it takes to survive in the lower or rapidly shrinking middle class. Unlike the right-wing, we don't engage in that false neo-Calvinist equation between wealth and intelligence. We recognize that a lot of folks don't do the money-grub or have opted out of the system precisely BECAUSE they choose a morally relevant life over the corporate hamster wheel. What the medium DOESN'T have is an overall understanding that the message is important, that the conversation is empowering and that the process closes the vastness of space between people. We lack the army of "communications" professionals who actively work within the medium to make the medium the best it can be. We have some, but not enough. On the commercial end, we lack those marketing pros with Roll-o-Dexes like seven-deck Vegas Blackjack chutes. We lack the marketing folks who want to get dirty, stinkin' rich hustling ad buys on liberal radio. That lack is largely a function of the radio equivalent of "The K Street Project" that sought to purge all Democrats and liberals from the ranks of K Street lobbying firms. The same thing happened in radio. Even though The H.O.R.N. is internet-based, we still work uphill to convince folks that leveraging audio and video at events in order to deliver it to folks who can't be there is important. I'm proud to say that Mark Karlin at BuzzFlash DOES get it, but there are still lots who DON'T. This is a battle we both can and WILL win, but it's going to take a lot of infrastructure-building. In the meantime, here at The H.O.R.N., we'll just set our coonskin hats at a rakish angle, pioneers that we are, and keep doing what we've been doing better than anyone else. Get On The H.O.R.N. www.headonradionetwork.com America's Un-commercial Liberal Voice

Quite frankly, the Fox Channel does NOT get turned on in my home 99.9% of the time. The only program I have tuned into to view is "Lie to Me" ... and I honestly think these methods would be used on the owners of Fox, all their employees, etc. Better yet, why not just shut them down. They're all liars and thieves anyway.

I agree completely with Buzzflash Editor's comments about Mr. Drobny's question why the big liberal monies still won't invest in buying up radio stations and spots to better equal the debate between the conservatives and liberals. Currently the air ways are remaining awash with the Republican Parties bidders so their propaganda machine is still very much alive. With nothing to loose they can go as nutty as they want and they are, everyday redefining and pushing the boundries of obsurdity until perhaps few can even begin to approach any issue objectively...thus a total collapse will ensue and all sorts of advantages will be present for those who can exploit it....can we say Katrina? or 911? Despite the obvious the liberal monies are living up to their self-absorbed stupidity and throwing their weight around in deliberate directions. My guess is they feel the hearts and minds of middle America are a lost cause and that all the trend setters on the coasts will carry the day, big mistake. The other possiblity is real change, even big liberal monies find real change a threat to their comfortable lives. To truely invest in open liberal radio would mean to truely expose oneself to examination and then judgement. Think Tanks can be managed easier than the likes of say Randi Rhodes, Think Tanks and Politicians respond immediately to the word from high whereas perhaps the public airwaves and all those minds listening do not ultimately? Transparency, accountability all these idealistic words and hopes must be checked ultimately so that POWER remains in the hands of the few rather than as our Fore Fathers so hoped it would be resting in the many. Ed Shultz and Randi Rhodes have spoken correctly about the viability of liberal radio based upon it's merits and the listeners ability to conclude the diference between snake oil salemen and real journalism. The evidence is there but the fear of the ghosts in the big liberal money closets is more real. Once again Big Liberal Money doesn't have the balls and once again it will be up to The People to make change happen...unceasing public pressure from a nation wide campaign is what will force the powers to respond and fall in line with the good hearts and minds of real people.

First of all, Liberals dont it. Yet, Progressives are realizing they're being ignored by the Democratic Party. That's an improvement! I'm an Ex-Dem with no where to hang my hat. I hang in limbo land, waiting for Americans to wake up to the fact that there isn't a LEFT-RIGHT paradigm. I see bankers and their minions in Congress. That's all there is...with the exception of a few progressives who won't take a corporate dime. All I know is, I'm a Constitutionalist. I am among the growing numbers, from both the Left and Right, who are beginning to see the secret structure of government, politics and economy. I have followed Rando Rhodes for several years. I have admired her and I have been disappointed in her. I have wished she would take THE TRUTH to the people, but have seen her hold the truth back by holding to the the Democratic Party's rhetoric. Playing it safe...keeping her job. Her audience is much more diverse than she ever realized. Many of us have moved on because we can see CHANGE must happen, but it isn't within our present day two party system. Randi..if you read this...Please understand AMERICA must be saved by those who have courage...even if it means losing your job.

I spend my time chasing my favorite liberal shows around and around. Sedar, Cenk, Randi, Malloy, Reagan, etal. Liberal/Progressive people like me must have their own haven, just like the Fox Conservatives have their special 24/7 "News" station. It is outrageous that this country has unfair and limited programming for one-half of the country. MSNBC finally got Keith, Rachel, and David S., who I enjoy. When MSNBC decides to swing left 24/7, then my TV will be on more often. I am sorry about the Drobny's and wish them luck in the future. I refuse to listen to Nancy Skinner on my XM, which is now turned off from 3 to 6 p.m. I enjoy Mike Malloy, and am waiting for the return of Randi. I hope it is soon.

What a crock. These people have been saying this for years. People do give money to peole they TRUST. See the thermometer on your front page, for example! People also gave ALOT of money to the Drobny's. They only started to cry and heave when people wouldn't give them MORE money for their little scams. Gerge Sorros and Barbra Streisand and the Clintons. They are not the only wealthy people in America. Plenty of people who they CAN'T brag about knowing, GAVE them money. Those people were heroes. The Drobny's are taking one last stab at being media martyrs. Please ... If they didn't commit themselves, someone should have for what they have done to the careers and lives of TRUE RADIO Professionals. No tears for those clowns. Meh.

The truth of the matter is, talk radio is a right-wing ghetto that only conservatives listen to. Progressives will not listen to it, no matter how hard the people behind Air America, Nova M and On Second Thought Radio try. They're wasting their time, energy and money. For one thing, talk radio is an AM ghetto; only a handful of commercial talk radio stations broadcast on the FM dial -- even though more than 85 percent of American radio listeners tune in to FM stations. Check out the Arbitron ratings. In market after market after market, FM stations dominate. I work in radio, so I know from where I speak. But that's not all. According to the Pew Center for the People and the Press, the commercial talk radio audience is made up overwhelmingly of white, middle-aged-and-older conservative Republican males. No way are they going to listen to progressive talk -- and since progressives don't listen to AM radio, it's no wonder that more than 90 percent of commercial talk radio is dominated by right-wingers. They're essentially "preaching to the choir." It's time for progressives to stop pouring money down a rathole with AM talk radio. And forget about restoring the "Fairness Doctrine" -- it cannot and will not save the talk radio medium in the long run. The Drobnys started Air America in 2004 with a terrible business model that simply is unworkable in commercial radio: Leasing all the airtime of a station that you don't own and broadcasting it over a network. That business model failed miserably, sending Air America into bankruptcy. Yet the Drobnys stuck with it when they launched Nova M. Now Nova M has failed. And Air America, now nearly five years old, is still losing money (despite the breakout TV success of its top star, Rachel Maddow, on MSNBC). How much longer can the current Air America owners, Green Family Media, keep pouring money into a losing enterprise?

Oh, and the last time I looked AAR was owned by wealthy liberals. What Nova M hosts call them is irrelevant.

I'm not sure that I buy the MSM-as-a-conspiracy meme. MSM "News" has transformed into an info-tainment profit center. The reactionary rightwing has financed propaganda-tanks entirely in order to inject their memes into a lazy media. The MSM who follow the rightwing memes do so because the the memes are skillfully marketed; exploiting the weaknesses of the MSM. The success of FNC, for example, owes more to tabloidization than rightwing ideology. In short, direct ownership of more than a few media vehicles isn't necessary if you've got propaganda tanks pushing and coordinating memes.

This has happened now twice in short order with Randi Rhodes. Remember that she changed her story, to glorify herself, about how she and AAR broke up; the story now is that she martyred herself on the altar of the dreaded Hillary Clinton, but at the time she assured us it had nothing to do with this, but rather with her unwillingness to renegotiate her contract with the new owners. Guess which story I believe.

It is not unremarkable that AAR produced a TV star and a US senator, while Nova M ended up with the two ex-AAR hosts that were too volatile for television.

Mark: I love BuzzFlash but you are missing the story on these Drobny's and buying into a pack of lies regarding their sob story. Talk to people who were at Nova M. I would guess that to them, BuzzFlash just lost a ton of credibility.

Perhaps by their pragmatic natures, real Lefty's do not wish to emulate the Righty's game?

Hartmann and Shultz types are the most successful "liberal" talkers because they really pose no threat to the powers-that-be.

When reading this editorial I was struck by the fact that because the Drobny's tried to start up liberal radio they are automatically regarded as heroes. I can see the 'rush to judgment' here, for I, too, want to see these people as heroes. I also understand the great desire to believe that people who would back liberal talk radio must by virtue of that connection be considered 'the good guys'. But other than having 'dinner' a couple of times with the Drobny's and talking liberal ideas and family what 'facts' support this conclusion? Isn't that what a 'news' outlet should be in the business of doing before rushing to conclusion that the Drobny's are the good guys here? That it is the investors or lack of them that is the culprit behind this fiasco of liberal talk radio? I live in a very conservative area of Texas and am surrounded by Bush backers, most of which are very good people...in general, but totally blinded by Bush and his conservative agenda. Many people here have had dinner with the Bushes and talked family and truly believe George Bush is a good and decent man; regardless of lies, deceit, and trickery, all for his own financial gain and to gain power for himself and his friends? Is it not possible for a 'liberal' to be a scam artist or con man? Is it not possible that two great enterprises called liberal talk radio have been floundering and cratering primarily because they were never meant to succeed? Like the Mel Brooks Broadway play, "The Producers"? For Air America Radio to have been in bankruptcy, to still be floundering, and for 'lawsuits' to be swimming in the background against the Drobny's, and now for Nova M Radio to go under, wouldn't it be wise to investigate the truth behind the scenes than to blame investors or the 'lack of' investors? All of this talk about liberal media not being backed has come from the Drobny's themselves, not from the Founder's club members, or from advertiser's or from the managers of the programs at AAR and Nova M. People did invest in the Founder's Club, of which I gave money. There were advertiser's who invested in these programs because they believed in liberal talk radio. These enterprises did not fail because of lack of support. Support was growing, and growing rapidly. They failed because it was a con game, just like, "The Producers", and just like the producers it was a success, but it wasn't suppose to be a success. The internal workings were against it. Please Google Sheldon Drobny, and click the link to Wikipedia and see the entry on his 80's style tax shelter scams. He is a good talker, but he may very well be a liberal talking con man. I think the editor should look into the story and investigate why Randi Rhodes is no longer with the Drobny's? Why are other shows not with the Drobny's anymore, and why so many? Sam Seder, Marc Maron, Jeff Farias, are just a very few who are no longer with the Drobny's and they had a huge fan base. And, too, Thom Hartmann, who was mentioned as being in the top 10. Why is he no longer with the Drobny's? Are we going to blame the top rated Nova M shows on the top rated hosts for the failure of Nova M, even AAR to succeed? Or are we going to look behind the scenes, and not take our personal dinners with the creators of the possible con as the 'facts'? I think the truth should be told, not blind loyalty or admiration be taken as truth. Liberal media, if it is going to be worth its salt in the coming weeks, months, years, and decades, must be able to look at their own honestly and with courage. To call a con a con, be they liberal or not. To hold up the creators of a very good idea as morally and ethically above board, without trying to find out the facts, is to believe in corporate American and her mythmaking moneytaking schemes as heroes when in fact they are nothing more than petty criminals. I ask you as a concerned liberal talk radio fan and supporter, find out what is really going on. Journalists can decipher fact from opinion. Lets get out of business of making opinion to be fact and look into the reality behind the failures of AAR and Nova M, rather than creating a false myth surrounding the Drobny's. No one wishes for Mr. Drobny to suffer. But if his 'mental breakdown' is merely a ruse to subvert the lawsuits against him...well, he deserves what is coming to him. All business con artists deserve what is coming to them. Good people invested money, only wanting liberal talk radio in return, and they keep loosing it in the form of the Drobny's. Liberal radio is a great and fantastic idea. It makes money, and it wins the hearts and minds of those who listen to the it. But if all we turn out to be are opinion makers, without facts, then we are nothing more than conservative talk and media and shouldn't be on the air. We should not be merely the 'opposite' of bullshit conservative media that is full of lies, opinion, and misinformation, merely giving our version of 'liberal' lies, opinion, and misinformation to balance conservative media out. We demand truth, facts, discernment. We need guidance and judgment, in lue of opinion parading as fact. Journalism above opinion. Fact before belief. Truth above myth. That is liberal talk radio. Or, it should be.

Mark, as you know, this is the same question that Robert Parry of Consortiumnews.com has been asking for several years.

I think the answer may be simpler then we think.

After all many wealthy liberals are trust-fund babies. For instance, the Kennedy clan, for all the good works they do and for all the liberal causes they support, from improving health care "access" for millions of under- and uninsured Americans to cleaning up the environment, not one of them owns or manages a business that actually produces anything.

The Kennedys are from being members of the "the idle rich." However I would hazard a guess that the lion's share of the individual wealth of a Ted or Robert, Jr. or a Caroline Kennedy, and that of all other family members derives from the stock-laden trust fund set up the family patriarch Joseph Kennedy, Sr. And I will also hazard a guess that the canny Kennedy clan patriarch larded the family portfolio with stock in the M$M as would any wise investor. And we can be sure that Joe Kennedy, Sr. wasn't the first nor last founder of a family fortune to invest in the M$M.

So when a young fellow like Mr. Drobny comes along, hat in hand, to a member of "the liberal elite" seeking start up capital for a new progressive media outlet, why would a someone already invested, stock-wise, in the M$M wish to risk resources in a new venture like "liberal" talk radio? Heavens, the trust-fund managers would have a fit!

After all, the M$M is very good to and for the trust-fund baby class. Where else in the world can a rich chump like Donald Trump get so much TV face time?

I agree with every word Mark Karlin wrote in tribute to Sheldon Drobny. But I will tell you this. It is important to realize that liberal (or more specifically, non-conservative) radio is not the opposite of low-brow rightwing radio. What is on talk radio, and what has poisoned our politics and our country to death for the past 30 years is not merely conservative, or right-wing radio. It IS all that....but it is something much more pernicious. IT IS ALL LIES ! It needs to be acknowledged that what is euphemistically called "Conservative" radio, or "right-wing" radio, as it is personified by limbaugh and the loathesome hannity, is first and foremost A BAG OF SHIT FILLED LIES ! EVERY DAY AND EVERY MINUTE IS ALL VICIOUS SMEAR MONGERING BULLSHIT! You can spend all the money in the world on alternative radio and media of all kinds....BUT...as long as you allow this perverse low-brow, right-wing LYING ala hannity et al., to masquerade as merely "commentary", you are adding to the destruction of all our lives by LEGITIMIZING the RELENTLESS LYING, as if it were in fact honest "commentary. IT IS NOT COMMENTARY....IT IS LYING CRAP ! AND IT NEEDS TO BE STOPPED. And the only effective way to put an end to it once and for ever is to BOYCOTT THE SHIT OUT OF IT ! Why the hell are taxpayers....you and I giving GM's CEO Rich Wagoner BILLIONS OF OUR DOLLARS which he immediately gives to hannity to LIE ! YES...WE TAXPAYERS.....YOU AND ME.....ALL OF US HAVE GIVEN GM'S RICH WAGONER BILLIONS WHICH HE THEN USES TO SUBSIDIZE hannity's LIES BY SUPPORTING hannity's LYING SHOW WITH ADVERTISING DOLLARS FROM OUR POCKETS ! GM NEEDS TO BE BOYCOTTED IMMEDIATELY !!! AND EVERY SINGLE ADVERTISER ON LYING LOW-BROW HATE RADIO NEEDS TO BE BOYCOTTED RIGHT ALONG WITH 'EM !!! BOYCOTT THE LIES ! BOYCOTT THE RADIO LIARS ! NOW ! And that will make Sheldon and our country well again. jaydiamond@usa.com

Why can't liberal-progressive media, be funded by "we the people"? If everyone who contributed to president Obama's campaign, sent $25 to the Drobny's, perhaps it would be a start in creating a viable fund to finance Nova M or Air-America..or even buy up a new station to give us a voice. We need to figure out a way to light a fire under wealthy liberals, so that they will realize how urgent this is. If they see ordinary people giving to this cause in droves, it might make an impression. Linda Ribner lsribner@msn.com Lauderhill Fl