BuzzFlash Mailbag for May 19, 2009

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Subject: Hate overrules education

Dear BuzzFlash:

It's a conundrum worthy of a major psychological study: how a person can be formally educated complete with degrees and ph.d's and in some areas, still be a blithering hate-mongering idiot. Again, to protect their identities, two people very close to me announced their wedding plans recently, and the bride-to-be had a last name that raised eyebrows among the right-wing evangelical hate mongers where I work. I will only say that the name could be construed as Arabic, but it actually is Asian.

At any rate, one of the hate mongrels (that's a good term, I think) knowing my association with these individuals, actually told me that he "had a problem" with the girl's last name. He acted as though he was kidding but if it wasn't bothering him, I doubt he would have brought it up. Now this is a person with a college degree, and one would think was educated enough to know better. I guess we'd have to think again.

My reaction was not one of alarm or surprise, but of anger and puzzlement that these types of people are still out there in droves. Needless to say, this racist is a Bible thumper first class, a hard-core Limbaugh supporter and non-union worker. I will not judge a person by his or her sex, nationality or race. I would say I don't judge people by their religious affliation, but at least in the case of right-wing evangelicals, they're so eager to spread their stupidity and hate that it's hard not to.

But you sanctimonious blasphemous morons must remember you bring this on yourself with your screaming out against homosexuals marrying, pro-choice people and "liberals", which is to say you hate anybody who isn't a far-right wacko like you. Meanwhile, how much do we hear of you speaking out against polygamy, adultery and child abuse? Don't think I don't find that suspicious.

As for those of you who think like the co-worker I have to deal with, may I paraphrase a popular board game: "Go To Hell, Go Directly To Hell. Do Not Pass Go. Do Not Collect $200."

Scott
Fayetteville, Ar.

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Subject: Torture and murder

Jeffrey Lionel Dahmer tortured and murdered 17 men and boys. What are Cheney's numbers?

Moreover, what's the difference between torture and murder by Dahmer and torture and murder by Cheney?

Nancy Lynn Nagy
TN Home of the real winner

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Subject: Israel Is Its Own Existential Threat

"What makes this so?"

"It occupies the Palestinian homeland."

"Anything else?"

"Israel's Masada complex."

"Which is?"

"Our way or doomsday."

"The answer being?"

"Jewish colonizer and colonized Palestinian sit down together for the purpose of figuring things out."

"Based on?"

"One equals one."

"Anything else?"

"Liberty and justice for all."

A BuzzFlash Reader

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Subject: Literal interpretations

Hi, Buzz!!

Your piece on the dangers of taking the Bible literally rather misses the point. The point with regard to Rumsfeld's war-mongering Bible quotations is not so much interpretation as context. Which is to say, Rumsfeld's lifting of a verse or two out of its context and turning it into something God never intended. It reminds me of a saying I heard as a child: "The Devil does his best work on the steps of the altar."

The Bible does require interpretation (even "literalism" is an interpretation). To interpret requires understanding, and the best way to understand Scripture is to read large chunks of it, not just a verse or two here and there, and regularly enough that you can remember what it says.

Actually, when I think about it, the whole argument over literal or not-literal interpretation is really meaningless. To read the Bible in English (or any other modern vernacular) is already to be at one remove from the original text. Unless you can read Hebrew and Greek, any Bible you pick up is already somebody's interpretation.

Large portions of the Bible were never intended to be taken literally. Jesus' parables, for example, are just stories to illustrate a point, not historical accounts of actual events. It's all still true, but sometimes we have to dig a bit to get at the truth. Insisting on literalism, or taking verses out of context, makes this more difficult, and isn't helpful either to believers or people looking for something to believe in.

I believe you used the word "blasphemous" in your post. Using Scripture out of context to support a political position (like the desirability of going to war) probably is blasphemy. It certainly leaves the perpetrator open to a charge of taking the Lord's name in vain.

Jane Hawes
Edmond, OK (red-state Democrat)

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Subject: Meg White on autos

Kudos for article on auto industry.

It is manifestly insane to concoct a ton and a half or so metal and plastic to put (only too often) one body on space-eating highways.

"Detroit" should be making locomotives, train passenger and freight cars, streetcars, buses and 15-passenger vans.

This conversion CAN be done. I am old enough to have WITNESSED a massive conversion: it was called WW II.

Joanne Forman
Taos New Mexico

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Subject: To Retake The Dawn We Must Switch From Confrontation To Inspiration

"What about with the Israeli-Palestinian conflict?"

"Especially there."

"Why especially?"

"Shared values."

"Such as?"

"Two peoples, neither of whom will ever be free until the last chain is broken."

"But how?"

"Jewish colonizer and colonized Palestinian sit down together and figure things out."

"Based on?"

"One equals one."

"Anything else?"

"Liberty and justice for all."

A BuzzFlash Reader

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Subject: The CIA

Does the CIA lie?

Remember when George Tenet stood behind Colin Powell as Colin Powell sold the Iraqi war to We the People?

George Tenet was someone who obviously did not want to be on camara while Colin Powell was stating facts or what he thought as facts of WMD in Iraq, told to him by the CIA.

George Tenet was the CIA! George Tenet knew he was hearing a lie in progress, a lie he and his CIA cronies, the perpetrators of that big lie, sold to Colin Powell and the world.

Yes, George Tenet's face showed that the CIA lies!

Believe it!

A BuzzFlash Reader

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Subject: Pelosi is guilty

I have been surprised at how many readers are defending Pelosi. Pelosi gave Bush everything he wanted and totally ignored calls for investigations and impeachment. Her final excuse for not starting impeachment proceedings was that Bush "hadn't done anything illegal." Her "cover your behind strategy" saying now that she didn't know about waterboarding is pathetic. All the "enhanced techinques" were illegal under domestic and international law. And if she didn't know about any of them then it was her duty to find out, whether that took initiating investigations or impeachment. The Republicans are correct on this one. Pelosi is as guilty as Bush, along with Reid. If they cared anything about this country they would both resign.

Larry
Maryland

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Subject: The Three Ring Circus ... Again

For eight LONG years, we've had to deal with the Republicans always in charge of the message. It doesn't matter what's happened, LYING about WMD, TORTURE, OUTING A UNDERCOVER CIA agent, FIRING 9 U.S. Prosecutors, Guantanamo Bay, GOING TO WAR with Iraq, WIRETAPPING Americans, ABU GHRAIB, STEALING ELECTIONS, SIGNING STATEMENTS, the list goes ON AND ON AND ON.

These neocons, get together and PLAN the message that they want given out to the press and they go on every T.V. program REPEATING AND REPEATING the same garbage OVER AND OVER again.

Now the entire torture program is Nancy Pelosi's fault. This lady was supposed to single-handedly STOP Bush and Cheney from TORTURING prisoners.

That's the new message the neocons are spouting.

I've WAITED EIGHT YEARS to get a new administration and a new president.

A president who would UPHOLD THE LAWS OF THIS LAND. A president who would PROTECT OUR CONSTITUTION AND THE AMERICAN PEOPLE. A president who would PROSECUTE ALL THOSE WHO COMMITTED A CRIME.

Unfortunately, we have a president who tells us that it's ILLEGAL TO TORTURE, but won't look back to prosecute the WAR CRIMINALS.

We have a president who won't give his Attorney General the okay to appoint a special prosecutor or demand that Congress hold full investigations like they did for Watergate.

Obama now won't release new photos of torture, because it may inflame the Middle East. Baloney.

After World War II, thousands of photos were released of the German concentration camps. Why? So the world wouldn't forget and as a deterrent to others NOT TO TORTURE.

What is wrong with our politicians? How can Obama, Eric Holder and any other appointee or elected official who has a LAW DEGREE, keep it?

Either you UPHOLD THE LAW OR YOU DON'T, PERIOD!!! Jesse Ventura was on THE VIEW 5-18-09 (see BuzzFlash video).

He said it like it is: TORTURE IS ILLEGAL, IT'S A CRIME AND THOSE WHO TORTURED SHOULD BE PROSECUTED AND GO TO JAIL.

He STOOD UP to Elizabeth Hasselback, and wouldn't back down. That video needs to be broadcast in prime time.

Ventura was water boarded, because he was in that Navy training program SERE (Survival Escape Resistance Evasion) during the Vietnam War.

Ventura also appeared on Larry King program on CNN, May 11, 2009 See: http:thinkprogress.org an article by Satyam Khanna 5/12/09 where you can see the interview and read a transcript. Ventura discusses being waterboarded.

I think Obama is intelligent, I think he's a great speaker, knows how to deliver a speech and has a very charming smile. Michelle looks like a First lady and they look like a great and loving couple.

Looks and charm can only take you so far. We're talking about a MEGA crime, that has been committed and SOMEBODY HAS TO BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE.

Personally, I've had it with politicians. I'm disgusted with Obama, the Democrats and the Republicans. Where is that person elected to office who BELIEVES IN THE RULE OF LAW?

I hope that the Spanish and any other country who wants to prosecute the Bush Administration, isn't pressured to back off.

There is no way we can preach to the rest of the world about anything. We'd be HYPOCRITES.

There is no way we can VOTE at the U.N. to hold another country accountable for TORTURE or HUMAN RIGHTS violations.

How can we possibly lead the world, when we give our own president a PASS on WAR CRIMES?

If we don't prosecute ALL OF THEM, INCLUDING THE CIA agents who tortured detainees, we will NEVER, EVER be able to look the rest of the world in the eye ever again.

Maybe, Obama really wasn't the one to lead America, he seems to have fallen in line with all the other politicians, Republican and Democrat alike.

After reading about some of the tortures done to detainees, like holding their eyes open while mace was sprayed into their eyes, eyes gouged out, I became sick and repulsed that we did this to another human being. Is THIS WHAT WE AMERICANS STAND FOR?

These crimes should be on the FRONT PAGE OF EVERY NEWSPAPER.

ANY INTERROGATOR WHO TORTURED MUST BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE. Mr. Panetta should read those documents and see if those are the type of people he wants working for him.

We had the Nuremberg trials and TORTURERS WERE SENT TO PRISON, so why are these TORTURERS going to go free? TORTURE IS TORTURE.

Read Jason Leopold 5-16-09 "Exclusive Documents Describe Prisoner Abuse Photos Obama is Withholding" www.AfterDowningStreet.

It looks to me like the Obama administration is helping to COVER UP the biggest crime that has involved an American President and Vice President.

We MUST call Congress and DEMAND PROSECUTION. Toll free 1-800-828-0498

Ask for a senator or congressman.

Call the Consulate General of Spain in Chicago to tell them that you support their investigation of the Bush administration lawyers.

1-312-782-4588 9:00a.m. to 2:00p.m.M-F(Central Time) Fax 1-312-782-1635 conspainchicago@sbcglobal.net

Markmyword
Chicago, Illinois

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Subject: We Ain't Them

"Another Newspaper Bites the Dust, This One in Tuscon 5/18"

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2009/05/16/us/AP-US-Tucson-Citizen-Closing.html?_r=1

Isn't it enough that we have to tolerate being seen as no different than our evil, embarrassing neighbors to the North? Can't you AT LEAST show us the common courtesy of CORRECTLY SPELLING OUR NAME?

It's TuCSon. NOT TuSCon.

And BTW, while Maricopa Co. gave you John McCain and Joe Arpaio, Pima Co. is home to Mo Udall and Raul Grijalva. A little respect, please.

Oh, well, perhaps change is on the way, Mescalito willing ...

http://www.bandersnatch.com/bajaz.htm

Ken Tucker
Tucson, Az

[BuzzFlash Note: We stand corrected and better educated. Thanks.]

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Subject: Like Iraq, the "Facts" Regarding 9/11 Were "Fixed Around the Policy"

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2009/05/just-like-with-iraq-facts-regarding-911.html

And: Guantanamo Prisoners STILL Being Tortured Under Obama

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2009/05/guantanamo-prisoners-still-being.html

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And: Re-Discovered: Video of Torture and Sexual Abuse in Iraq Prison

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2009/05/2006-australian-documentary-on-torture.html

George Washington
California

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Subject: Holy Common Ground

Good luck on finding Common Ground on religious views. It only took a whole lot of bloody ground in the Civil War to find common ground on slavery and the Southern Baptists were still not convinced.

According to the 2001 edition of the World Christian Encyclopedia there are 10,000 distinct religions identified, of which 150 have at least 1 million followers. Christianity is one of those 150 and there are 33,820 separate Christian denominations.

I think the large number has to do with their inability to find common ground. I was raised Southern Baptist and it isn't unusual to find 5 or 6 SBC churches in a town of less than a 1,000 because Southern Baptists have problems finding common ground with other Southern Baptists. People do not often budge on things they believe will send them to hell. Obama isn't budging on his definition of marriage.

He is speaking to a different Christian choir if he thinks he is going to find common ground on reducing abortions by finding common ground on preventing pregnancy with the Catholics. Nor is he going to find common ground if he thinks homosexuals should have as many rights as a fertilized egg.

I am a bit puzzled that the Pope has been pretty quiet during this holy war on thought. It could be that someone might ask why the former Archbishop of Boston, Bernard Law, is now a Cardinal in Rome. I mean he was the pimp who moved child abusing priests from parish to parish like chess pieces to spread all that child love around and cover up the priestly problem with pedophelia.

Obviously pedophelia isn't that big of a deal. I am told that the reason they didn't have a problem with George W Bush is they believe the death penalty is fine as long as it is correctly administered. Dubya was called the Texacutioner and had no problem executing people who were mentally challenged.

I think fertilized eggs trump abused teenagers and preteens in the worth saving department. Their problem seems to be that the church is unable to convince women and girls, through guilt, that they have no control over their bodies so they have to do it through civil law. I think it is a failure to communicate or find common ground.

Most of the large Christian denominations agree that Mormonism is a cult, but they have no problem finding enough common ground with them to get all kinds of self-righteous idealogues elected. There common ground is found in the ballot box or Political Action Committees.

Common ground, Mr. Obama, will be found when you nominate an anti-choice and anti-gay rights person to the Supreme Court.

Karen Webb

Moore, Ok

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Subject: Credit cards

Hi, Buzz!

Creed Ballew has the right idea: If the credit card company is trying to screw you, quit using the card! (Full disclosure: I have never used a credit card, so I can't take my own advice here. Every credit-card offer I get in the mail goes immediately into the shredder.)

I understand this may be difficult for a lot of people, given present circumstances, but if enough of us manage to do it, the credit-card industry will lose money and maybe change their ways.

My husband recently was informed that his credit limit has been reduced. What's funny about this is that he has never run an outstanding balance. He pays his bill in full every month. I guess this makes him a bad risk - or else somebody's trying to punish him for not making them money. Poor credit-card guys - how are they supposed to gouge the public if the public declines to go into debt?

My heart bleeds.

Jane Hawes
Edmond, OK (red-state Democrat)

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Subject: Heck of a job, Leon

Leon Panetta has just come on board to say that the CIA has never lied to or misled congress. It is never too early to hand out Medals of Freedom for covering Bush butts. Come on, President Obama, give him a medal for accusing his former friend and collegue of lying when he knows damn will the CIA has lied and will continue lying to anyone they please. They have absolutely nothing but hearsay evidence they said anything to anyone.

On December 14, 2004 George W Bush handed out 3 Medals of Freedom and tried not to say, "OMG! What the pluperfect Haedies?" too many times while reading his reasoning.

"This honor goes to three men who have played pivotal roles in great events and whose efforts have made our country more secure and advanced the cause of human liberty," Mr. Bush said.

Retired Gen. Tommy Franks, who oversaw combat in Afghanistan and the initial invasion of Iraq because he "led the forces that fought and won two wars in the defense of the world's security and helped liberate more than 50 million people from two of the worst tyrannies in the world."

Try not to laugh because it isn't funny and a lot of our guys have died or been wounded after the victory.

I feel a need for some clarification regarding which two wars he is speaking of. Was there another Mission Accomplished banner at this event and was he lowered from a chopper onto the deck of a submarine while dressed in full Navy SEAL attire? I am confused because I think they just installed a new guy still tying to win in Afghanistan because the Taliban is coming back and they are also trying to topple the government of Pakistan. I doubt many, including the guy who just shot 4 or 5 of his fellow soldiers at a mental facility in Baghdad, would say there is victory in Iraq and I am not sure all those 50 million are all still in Iraq. A lot of them are still in Syria and those still in Iraq don't have 24 ours of electricity.

Bremer was the top civilian U.S. official in postwar Iraq, overseeing the transfer of power to an interim Iraqi government in June. "For 14 months Jerry Bremer worked day and night in difficult and dangerous conditions to stabilize the country, to help its people rebuild and to establish a political process that would lead to justice and liberty," Mr. Bush said.

And 8 months after he left and 7 months after he received his M of F there was only $8.8 billion of rebuilding funds unaccounted for and I think they are still unaccounted for.

http://www.populistamerica.com/so__mr_bremer__where_did_all_the_iraq_money_go_

And last but certainly not least;

"Tenet left the CIA in July after seven years as director. He has been criticized for intelligence failures before the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks and the never-proven prewar allegations that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction."

However, we now know that the CIA never lies or misleads anyone.

"Mr. Bush credited him as 'one of the first to recognize and address the threat to America from radical networks.' He said that after Sept. 11, Tenet was 'ready with a plan to strike back at al Qaeda and to topple the Taliban.'"

I would like to say now, that Mr. Tenet was "obligated" to know or find out what his guys were doing and "absolutely obligated" to tell us. I don't think I am mistaken, but Tenet told us that the CIA was not waterboarding or torturing anyone. I find it astounding that anyone would say that no one and definitely not the CIA or any Bush official would lie to or mislead congress, Nancy Pelosi or this nation.

Might I mention that we still do not know who was on Dick Cheney's energy task force.

Heck of a job, Leon, and now they will blame you when the crap hits the propellor. How many times do you guys have to be told that agreeing with the GOP means everything that happens will now be your fault because you didn't "just say no" to the CIA?

Karen Webb
Moore, Ok

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Subject: Pelosi Attack is Just a GOP Distraction

Dear Buzzers

I agree 100% with Mark's Editor's blog today.

Here's a comment I posted yesterday on the NY Times, associated with Maureen Dowd's column "Cheney, Master of Pain."

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/17/opinion/17dowd.html

My comment, #162.

Nancy Pelosi is just a distraction manipulated by Cheney and all the powers that be that were responsible for torture and abuse, others who knew about it and thought it was OK - most of the punditocracy and the American public - and others looking for easy scapegoats.

Why is she uniquely culpable? Was she privy to more information about the interrogation program than anyone else in Congress? What do we know about what she did and did not say in these classified briefings? Why does anyone believe that if she had spoken out it would have stopped them? (Since when does Cheney take advice from anyone?) And who knows what threats the Bushies made against opponents? They were famously ruthless.

At worst, Nancy Pelosi is just a distraction. How can Maureen Dowd not comment on the sexism of blaming a woman?

Dowd is right, "I used to agree with President Obama, that it was better to keep moving and focus on our myriad problems than wallow in the darkness of the past. But now I want a full accounting. I want to know every awful act committed in the name of self-defense and patriotism."

Amen. How soon can we start? — CJGC, Cambridge, MA

And here's what I posted on Frank Rich, “Obama Can’t Turn the Page on Bush”

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/17/opinion/17rich-5.html

#189 I thought Obama was all in favor of transparency and sunshine. But now he decides not to release photos that will, as Rich said, mostly leak out anyway. He says he wants to "look forward" and not back. That is, he is dodging every way he can a thorough investigation, in whatever ways it should go forward, of the Bush administration's crimes and missteps from torture, hidden detentions, horrendous abuse of prisoners at Abu Ghraib and Bagram, and who knows where else, who were not even being interrogated to lies about threats to the U. S. from Saddam Hussein to criminal irresponsibility in sending troops into battle with grossly defective and inadequate equipment - lack of properly armored vehicles to electrocuting showers and lack of adequate amounts of water to keep heavily dressed men doing hard work properly hydrated in temperatures up to 120 degrees Farenheit.

One suspects a lot of push back from the military, CIA, and other government security services that are accustomed to operating with little oversight and no transparency. Well, sorry guys, you work for us, not us for you.

Sadly, our official hypocrisy is beginning to stink badly. The longer Obama waits to let investigations go forward on many fronts, the more he becomes part of the problem instead of part of the solution.

Meanwhile the Republicans and the CIA and the punditocracy, and even some Democrats, are pointing fingers at Nancy Pelosi for not being forthcoming about exactly what she was told when and for not having stopped the Bush administration and/or going public with what she, and others, were told in secrecy. I daresay almost no one ranting and raving in public has any idea what the story is. This is as good an argument as any for a thorough, comprehensive, no holds barred investigation. Not a quickie whitewash "commission" but a full investigation on all fronts.

This would not be dangerous, would not threaten our national security, would not give fodder to our enemies. On the contrary, it's the only way we can save our democracy. If we do it the world will be impressed. It might even take the wind out of the sails of al Qaeda and other terrorist groups if we show that our government is not corrupt and secretive and abusive, like most governments throughout history, but that we take our pragmatic and idealistic Constitution and other founding documents seriously. — CJGC, Cambridge, MA

The NY Times now provides an opportunity to comment on many editorials, columns, and sometimes op-ed and even the occasional news story. The comments are moderated, which makes posting slow, but it keeps the tone good and the comments do not degenerate into versions of "You moron, you guys are always saying ..." Lots of the comments are very thoughtful and worth reading even if you don't want to write. If you do want to join in it's best to try to read the opinion pages the night before, because when there's a topic that generates a lot of interest they close the comments when they've got as many as they can handle, often before noon EDT.

So how can we organize to get the torture story dealt with? Personally, I'm not dedicated to putting all the miscreants in jail, although they well deserve it. I think the most important part is thorough investigation and thorough disclosure. Otherwise, as I wrote in my comment on Frank Rich, we're no better than all the governments of the world.

As for arguments that this will distract us and Obama from dealing with the myriad other important problems I have 2 thoughts. One is that a government and a leader has to be able to "multi-task" and the other is that even authoritarian governments can build bridges, fund schools, provide health care, etc. etc. etc. But lack of transparency is deadly to democracy and if we give that up the rest is trivial.

Colleen Clark

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