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Pretend Biden, Bayh, and Kaine are THE finalists: which one do you want as Obama's VP?

Submitted by Chad on Tue, 08/19/2008 - 9:13am.

Be-Elected

BE-ELECTED
by Chad Rubel

We will (finally) find out tomorrow morning the person whom Barack Obama will select as his running mate. We've had our favorites, our longshots, our wish list.

But the MSM, for what it's worth, has been focused on three names recently: Sen. Joe Biden (D-DE), Sen. Evan Bayh (D-IN), and Virginia Governor Tim Kaine.

Assuming for the moment that these are the three names -- the only three names from whom you can choose -- let us know what you think.

It's easy to focus on just the horse race since the MSM carries cigars and rolled up newspapers as they place their bets. But which candidate makes the best vice president? The race is four months; the VP is four (hopefully eight) years, and perhaps the presidency.

So there are three questions:

-- Which one gives Obama the best chance to win in November?

-- Which one would make the best vice president?

-- Is that person one and the same?

I WISH IT WERE SCHWEITZER OR RICHARDSON

Submitted by imsloan on Thu, 08/21/2008 - 1:59pm.

Why did Obama drop any Western governors from consideration? I think either one of these (from Montana and New Mexico, respectively) would really cement the Democrats' new position in the west and make it a truly cross-continental party. (Not to mention it would cut deeply into McCain's own built-in Western constituency.) I'm not terribly impressed with any of the three mentioned, although I think choosing Bayh would be an absolute disaster, not just because he is the old-politics "Corporate Frankenstein," but befcasue he brings absolutely nothing to the ticket. Indiana is a rather rural state and doesn't have the geographical resonance of a Montana or a New Mexico. in other words, he would not help Obama regionally. Plus, all McCain has to do is get Colts star Peyton Manning or coach Tony Dungy to headline a fundraiser in Indianapolis to make Obama really wish he'd picked someone else. Biden also adds nothing to the ticket regionally (which almost always goes Dem anyway), and he also represents the old politics that Obama says he is trying to get away from, so that leaves Kaine, I guess.

ANYBODY BUT KAINE

Submitted by quidam56 on Thu, 08/21/2008 - 12:55pm.

Wish I had my vote back from the last Governor's race here in Virginia. Tim Kaine has been a dissappointment. http://www.caringbridge.org/visit/timmullins

Who?

Submitted by Stash on Wed, 08/20/2008 - 11:40am.

Biden is the best choice of the three to win and will make a fine VP. Some are afraid of his "loose lips". I think that makes him more interesting. He'll do just fine. "In wine there is wisdom, in beer there is freedom, in water there is bacteria."

Cool Headed VP

Submitted by lsemizian on Wed, 08/20/2008 - 9:45am.

I want the one who is good at foreign policy, one not willing to escalate the conflict with Russia. I am already angry enough that this conflict flared up just before the elections. Washington was already aware that Americans would be skeptical of a terrorist attack just before the election or Osama Bin laden showing up just in time. But who ever suspected that Georgia would make a grab for Russian territory and another Cold War would re-ignite? Very clever Dick Cheney!

OF THE THREE........

Submitted by kroses98 on Wed, 08/20/2008 - 12:37am.

Biden is the best, but I STILL like Senator Jim Webb of Virginia the best. He has it all!!!

Hilary, Don't do it.

Submitted by lufinn on Tue, 08/19/2008 - 11:30pm.

I know there are a few die hard Hilary fans out there. I am not one. There are a LOT of us that just do not see any goodness in her. I will say, If presented with a choice of Obama/ Hilary ticket vs McCain/ anybody I will choose to just not vote at all because Hilary would negate any possible change.

I agree!!!

Submitted by kroses98 on Wed, 08/20/2008 - 12:39am.

I feel the same exact way about this, only maybe even more so. She makes my skin crawl!!!

One more reason ...

Submitted by Yman on Wed, 08/20/2008 - 8:29am.

... to choose her.

A little "icing on the fruitcake", as it were.

Biden

Submitted by The Skeptical Cynic on Tue, 08/19/2008 - 10:50pm.

Biden is a very affable guy. Although quite often in need to have a hidden hearing devise in his ear in which a trusted aide could whisper "STFU already", I'm certain that the world be more than just a little amenable to listen to Biden talk sense and sensibly rather than the brutish, bellicose, bullying of a Cheney or the whining of America's Ilsa Koch or blood thirsty Madeleine Albright who said the death of thousands upon thousands of innocent Iraqi children as a result of the sanctions against Iraq was worth it.

What I wasn't aware of until relatively recently, which causes me concern and has mr giving Biden the "fish eye" is:
He and Alan Cranston in the 1980s (1988 I believe)pushed through the Senate legislation still in effect today, that provides that Israel shall always be provided sufficient foreign money that it will not default of U.S. foreign that is provided to Israel as loans.

Think of it this way - your A Bank gives you more in loans than any other client in the world to buy a house. Whenever is appears that you might miss a payment, the bank GIVES you money to make the payment!

All other U.S. loan clients get they annual loan money in quarterly amounts as it is needed. The total amount appropriated by the U.S. for the loan is placed in a a fund on which the the U.S. can collect interest on the portion not curently allotted. Israel, on the other hand gets their entire loan up front and IT GETS THE INTEREST ON THOSE PORTIONS IT BANKS UNTIL USED.

Now, in the event that Israel, for whatever reason, an invasion of Lebanon, a major wall building project, a costly illegal settlement in occuppied territories ... whatever, cannot make a payment, it gets free money to make its payment or... the loan gets converted to a grant which does not have to be paid at all. So when Israel makes the statement that it has never defaulted on a loan from the U.S. now you know why.

I'm not making this up. Research into various government web sites and non-partisan investigative committees can confirm all of the above.

Biden doin' Israeli biddin' doesn't set too well with me! Clark credentials are truly extraordinary; his analytical skills unsurpassable, his multiculturalism and multilingual skills a tremendous asset. However, having been a Republican up until he decided to run for president leads me to wonder if he has the heart of the small of a small 'd' democrat or changed parties for merely political expediency.

I think that Clark as V>P> candidate would do wonders for Obama's campaign, particularly the more pragmatic of the warrior class element still extant in the Democratic party. Biden could bring a bit of a warm and fuzzy feeling among the older Democrats who are panicking over the idea of too much change and the "unknown unknowns" about Obama. Selecting Sebelius of Kansas although probably a plus for the nation would so piss off the already totally irrational hysterical Clintonistarettes they would likely become suicide bombers at major polling places throughout the nation. (I have met very intelligent, very articulate and rational woman beome so separated from reality at Clinton not being the nominee, puts them into such a of near apoplexy rage that it nearly calls for sedation and a wraparound coat with the long sleeves that belt that connect in the back.

Too bad the Unbossed and Unbought Shirley Chisholm is no longer available.

An articulate black man and a more articulate and "ballsy" black woman.

America will never achieve the promise of its greatest until such a ticket would beviewed viewed not as extraordinary but ordinary.

The Skeptical Cynic doth spake!

Santa knows when you are sleeping,
He knows when you're awake.
He knows if you've been bad or good.
Unfortunately, so does Bush,
Cheney, Rice, Mukasey, and...
the FBI, ONI, ASA, MCIA, CIA,
NSA, DIA, MI6, MOSSAD and others
too numerous to mention...

Best Choice?

Submitted by Betty on Tue, 08/19/2008 - 5:46pm.

If I have to choose "one of the above" - Biden. But my first choice is Wes Clark.

VP

Submitted by carolmarie on Tue, 08/19/2008 - 5:44pm.

I would select Biden out of those three, but I'd rather choose Wes Clark, my second choice would be Bill Richardson, and my third would be Hillary Clinton. That's what would get me excited about this election.

Obama's VP

Submitted by jcarv on Tue, 08/19/2008 - 3:36pm.

Among these three, Biden would be my choice; he knows a lot about foreign policy and debates well. The other two wouldn't do as well to offset (what are said to be) Obama's weaknesses. It wouldn't surprise me if Obama chooses someone we aren't expecting, however.

None of the above.

Submitted by Bearymore on Tue, 08/19/2008 - 2:04pm.

What will any of these candidates, with the possible exception of Biden, bring to the ticket? Middle of the road and undistinguished. Surprise us; give us something to get excited about; give us an unimpeachably credentialed statesman. Give us Gore! Please!

Clark still beats them in

Submitted by lufinn on Tue, 08/19/2008 - 1:07pm.

Clark still beats them in all points of previous comments. Why pick corporate whores? Why pick consummate, professional politicians, none of whom are currently attempting any of the changes they have been alluding to. No impeachments, no war crimes, no tax relief, stop the war? Exactly what are they waiting for? A chance to show they really are different and willing to show they are brave enough to drop the sanctimonious crap they continue with? come on, show me the integrity.

Bidens pros outweigh the cons

Submitted by chitown on Tue, 08/19/2008 - 12:54pm.

First off the matter of coroporate whoredom should be looked at as who is the least of that. All of these politicians need big time money to survive so it becomes a matter of who has sold out less. Admittedly the credit card issue cuts deep for the average person and that is a major negative for Biden. However I believe his positives outweigh the negatives. He gives Obama a foriegn policy heavyweight, he is articultae and can be very feisty when taking on the Repugnants. Its got to a handful of Dems who actually show some teeth like Biden when going after the Repubs. He also at one time was a strong if not leading candidate for prez. As I recall what sabotaged him was he stole some lines from a Tony Blair speech and his prez campaign went downhill from there. Outside of this personality flaw he looked like he could be a decent president and thats a very important consideration if Obama has a strong 8 years we dont want a dud to be a four and done type in the WH. Joe could not only enhance Obama's stature as a prez candidate but actually be big help when governing and deal with foreign policy matters. Being from Chicago its hard to believe anybody from Indiana is a political asset so I have to admit a bias regarding Bayh. If you ever drove through Indiana for any reason you might have the same bias. Taking the who will be prez candidate and possibly prez after Obama factor into consideration, Bayh for my money falls flat as a pancake. Tim Kaine just seems like over kill for the change factor. Obama has more than enough charisma, speaking ability and intelligence to carry the day for that element in this prez race.

Veep

Submitted by Pelu Maad on Tue, 08/19/2008 - 12:29pm.

That's the wrong three. It should be Sebelius, Napolitano or McCaskill.

Barak needs to grow a set

Submitted by lufinn on Tue, 08/19/2008 - 12:12pm.

Listen, I am not a big Obama fan, but i would vote for Beelzebub over McCain. None of these three has the basic qualifications needed for the job. None of them gives a better chance of winning, None of them would be a better VP, and I am beginning to think I might just give up on hoping for hope and not vote at all! If the Obama crew grew a set, they would tell the right leaning press to shove it about the Wes Clark remarks about McCain's "military service" which consisted of flying high above civilian villages and dropping bombs on women and children, getting shot down (losing a FIFTH plane in the event), ending up in a prison camp where he lasted a couple days before he let them know he was the son and grandson of admirals and got very preferential treatment from that point on while his fellow prisoners spent the time in bamboo cages. Clark was correct in telling McCain he was full of crap about distinguished service. The issue at hand is something that everyone seems to beat a wide path around but avoid actually addressing directly. We must try to remember that it is a JOB and there are qualifications one must meet in order to effectively carry out the duties of the office. For some strange reason, the real qualifications are overlooked in political reporting. If this position were posted at your place of work, it would have a job opening posting that looks something like this: Applicant should meet the following criterion- Must speak English fluently,(collegiate level minimum) other languages a plus. A demonstrated ability to organize complex systems. A grasp of domestic and foreign diplomatic procedures. Actually being familiar with other world leaders a big plus. A solid grasp of the military- including strategy, budget, impact of it's use, and realistic expectations of it's abilities. A good mathematics ability (again, collegiate level mandated). A good grasp, if not previous exposure, of several various cultures and religions. A history of success in business and/ or career. Knowledge of different branches of government, their duties and their powers. Knowledge of the constitution. A real rapport with the needs and desires of the majority of citizens. Keep in mind that Emperor Dubyah the Doltish has NONE of these. Clark speaks at least five languages. Graduated Valedictorian at West Point. was awarded a Rhodes Scholarship to the University of Oxford where he obtained a degree in Philosophy, Politics, and Economics. Master's degree in military science Presidential medal of freedom recipient. Was Supreme Allied Commander Europe of NATO from 1997 to 2000, retired as a 4 star general, disagreed with attacking Iraq. Led a multinational, multi billion dollar budgeted, multi lingual, multicultural, multi religious, military force with thousands of members very successfully. He was shot four times by a Viet Cong soldier with an AK-47. Never deserted. Supports the ideas of Universal Health care coverage for all, Tax relief for everyone making less than two hundred grand a year, Impeachment and prosecution of criminal actions of Bush administration, Prosecution of torture and war crimes. This beats the pants off of all other potential running mates, period. What else can you ask for? He is the only person on the list that actually qualifies!

Good choice but ...

Submitted by chitown on Tue, 08/19/2008 - 1:01pm.

I would feel good about Wes Clark as VP but apparently he is not in the mix. However, it sure seems like Wes could be the Secretary of Defense for Obama if and when he gets elected. The Defense Secretary would have a much more active role in making decisions that affect the country than the VP. That should give you some consolation.

Biden would help; Kaine would be best

Submitted by kivals on Tue, 08/19/2008 - 11:13am.

Biden would clearly be the one who would help Obama most in winning the election. He would most likely assume the role of foreign policy point man and would attack McCain's positions and ability in foreign policy, undermining McCain's main strength. However, Biden is known as the credit card senator, representing the interests of the credit card companies in the senate for decades. So on domestic policy, Biden could be a disaster, while Kaine is somewhat progressive. Of course it is possible that as VP Biden could be restricted to giving advice and possessing some authority only with regard to foreign policy matters, and, if so, he could be the better VP.

Obama Veep

Submitted by mrtshw on Tue, 08/19/2008 - 10:38am.

Joseph Biden has the gravitas and the combative style to counter alzheimer fortified Bush, aka McCain.He is far superior to the other considerations. Anybody but Hillary!

Yeah! "Anybody but Hillary!"

Submitted by Yman on Tue, 08/19/2008 - 10:48am.

After all ......... we wouldn't want to actually win this election.

"Anybody but Hillary!"

Submitted by bahamamama on Tue, 08/19/2008 - 9:30pm.

Soooo, I guess you got a poll that says Obama would definitely win if Hillary was his running mate??? You, the one who espouses making comments that are only backed by polls??? Ha! Obama IS going to win, and I have nothing to prove, so I don't need to quote some ever-changing polls to voice my opinion. YOU are the one who says polls must substantiate such claims. Where's yours? politicaljunkie

Who said "Obama would definitely win"?

Submitted by Yman on Tue, 08/19/2008 - 10:32pm.

Not me. Can you make an argument that isn't straw?

Obama might be able to win with a different VP, but his odds are a helluva lot better with her as his VP, because she's the only one who gives him a statistically significant boost in any national poll results. You want poll data? ................. too easy. The last poll showed him getting an 8 point bump with Clinton as his VP, and (as Huffpo notes) "Opinion Dynamics polling has actually shown the same thing for three straight months; others have, too."

Do you think he can afford to sacrifice any significant bump at this point? In any case, it'll probably be a moot point in a day or two, since it's very unlikely he'll pick her. More importantly, we can all relax and ignore all the poll data, because Bahamamama says "Obama IS going to win!", and who needs the polls when you have faith, right?.

Ultimately ........... his choice, and the election is his to win or lose. But if he chooses someone else and loses, don't come cryin' in November.

Who said...

Submitted by bahamamama on Wed, 08/20/2008 - 7:57am.

There you go again, Yman. Must be impossible for you to form an original opinion without some poll...Hillaryites like you are already the ones crying, not me! I'm glad she lost, and, by the way, I recollect polls saying she was the certain winner during the primaries. OBAMA IS GOING TO WIN!

Not crying

Submitted by Yman on Wed, 08/20/2008 - 8:46am.

Just trying to bring a dose of reality to the Obama "faithful". "There you go again, Yman. Must be impossible for you to form an original opinion without some poll."

Uhhhhhhmmm ....... you asked for the poll data ...... remember? When you get the data, you don't like it (and don't have any data to the contrary), so you start crying.

BTW - Original opinion without poll data? As you've demonstrated, waaaaaaaay too easy. How 'bout this? Sure Obama might win. At this point, the odds are still slightly in his favor. But any one who makes the unqualified claim that "OBAMA IS GOING TO WIN!", when he's in a statistical dead heat with McCain and trending downward as we enter the final stretch is putting all their eggs in the belief/faith basket ..........

OR .............

they're just clueless.

BBTW - In case you doubt the "trending downward" comment (it's hard for the faithful to entertain doubts), I'll make it easy for you, with an average of ALL the polls.

best of the three

Submitted by SLadd on Tue, 08/19/2008 - 10:36am.

Biden would be the best back up if he suddenly became president due to any circumstance. At least I'd feel better with him there. He is solid in most every way, the most important being a strong sense of compassion. The only drawback is his centrist positions over the years. Kaine is more progressive and does have the 'change' factor, though still has a touch of the boy scout; he seems like a good guy. Bayh leaves me cold and bored. None of these are my hoped-for choice.

Joe Biden

Submitted by ETS on Tue, 08/19/2008 - 10:34am.

I'll just quote David Sirota's column concerning Even Bayh:

Obama selecting this corporate Frankenstein would implicitly signal that the Illinois senator's populist campaign promises are a farce. In terms of demoralizing Democratic voters, a Bayh pick would make Al Gore's 2000 choice of Joe Lieberman — i.e., the worst vice-presidential nomination in contemporary history — look positively brilliant.

As far as Tim Kaine...who??

Biden and Bayh are both corporate sell-outs!

Submitted by DonnaM on Tue, 08/19/2008 - 11:03am.

DonnaM Oh for goodness sake, anyone that's been paying attention for the last 7 years knows that BOTH Biden and Bayh have sold us down the river in terms of corporate-friendly legislation, decimating the Bill of Rights, and giving cover the to illegal, despicable Iraq War! Although I'm no big fan of Kaine, I believe this makes him the preferable choice, by default - if we have to choose from these three less-than-stellar options, that is! So come on - let's not pretend that Biden and Bayh are anything other than complete corporate-fascist sell-outs, folks! (I know most Americans have short memories/attention spans, or have simply not been following these issues for the last 8 years - but I really expected better of Buzzflash readers!)

Long Experience

Submitted by urthsong on Tue, 08/19/2008 - 5:17pm.

Biden has long experience at both the national and international level. He was also a presidential candidate active in many debates where he held his own. I would have picked Richardson myself, mainly because I'd like Biden to stay in the Senate and help recover the balance of power with his expertise. But if it must be, Biden, who is my senator here in Delaware has to be my choice. I've been generally pleased with his voting record while not so much with our other senator, Carper. Note that Biden went to the nation of Georgia a few days ago. I think that is a very telling sign if Obama asked him to go. I can picture Obama using his vice prez to scope out international crises and bring back the info needed to make good decisions. Now that's a test. Pat Williams

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