The Myth of the Democratic Filibuster Proof Senate

Submitted by mark karlin on Sat, 11/15/2008 - 10:57am.

EditorBlog

MARK KARLIN BUZZFLASH EDITOR’S BLOG

The corporate media and even progressive Internet sites are holding out the possibility that the Democrats, with three undecided senate races, may still reach the magical number of 60 Dems in the Senate to attain a "filibuster proof" majority.

There's only one problem with this universally-held assumption that 60 Democratic votes would give them the power to stop obstructive and destructive Republican filibusters: it's wrong.

Sometimes math triumphs common sense and this is one case that illustrates this. Yes, technically with 60 votes, the Democrats could prevent ongoing GOP filibusters to prevent America from progressing forward. But there is a difference between a technical threshold and the reality of how Democratic senators vote.

Take the infamous Benedict Arnold Joe Lieberman. He's included in that 60 threshold, and whether he remains in or out of the Democratic caucus, he is not going to vote the party line depending upon his whim. And then you have the Ben Nelsons of Nebraska, Max Baucuses of Montana, Evan Bayhs of Indiana, and Blanche Lincolns of Arkansas, for example, who often desert the majority of Democrats on key votes where they want to be aligned with the mythical "center."

If you recall, seven Democratic senators and seven Republican senators teamed up to prevent former Republican Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist from implementing an effort to eliminate the filibuster by exercising the so-called "nuclear option." These seven Democratic senators basically agreed with seven Republican counterparts that they would vote for Bush appointments to the federal bench unless they were proven child molesters or murderers, but wouldn't take their partisanship or bigotry into account. In short, the seven Dems gave Bush a pass to continue packing the federal bench with GOP hacks. The ad hoc bi-partisan coalition to enable Bush judicial appointments was known as the "Gang of 14."

Which Democratic Senators were in the Gang of 14? Democrats Ben Nelson of Nebraska, Joe Lieberman of Connecticut (officially an Independent), Robert Byrd of West Virginia, Mary Landrieu of Louisiana, Daniel Inouye of Hawaii, Mark Pryor of Arkansas and Ken Salazar of Colorado. Guess what, all seven will be in the Senate in 2009.

And there are other Democratic senators who frequently defect on party line votes, in large part because Harry Reid doesn't punish Democrats who stray from the caucus position. On the Republican side, you feel the heat and retribution if you betray the party leadership. But none of that among the lenient Dems.

What that means, in essence, is that Harry Reid is unlikely to corral 60 Dems into voting to defeat a GOP filibuster, even if the Dems should miraculously win the three outstanding senate races. Oh, it could happen occasionally -- particularly if one or two Republicans defect -- but don't count on it as a regular occurrence.

Reid just doesn't enforce party discipline, and the Dems in the Senate from red states are concerned about preserving their "centrist" credentials.

So just remember that if the Dems somehow get to 60 votes, it doesn't by any means indicate that they will regularly stop Republican filibusters aimed at making the new administration's legislative agenda dysfunctional.

For that, the Dems would have to grow a spine and replace Reid with a leader who could instill party discipline.

But don't expect that to happen anytime soon.

As a result, just remember that 60 Democratic votes will not mean a filibuster proof senate.

That concept -- given the lack of Senate Democratic party line discipline -- is just a myth.

MARK KARLIN BUZZFLASH EDITOR’S BLOG

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How are we gonna sing Kumbaya w/o Reid?

Submitted by Pancho Angry on Sun, 11/16/2008 - 2:15am.

Your point is right on, of course. Dems think they can make nice with the devil in a real test of Christian ethic. Truth is if your competition wants to go right and you want to go left, there is no middle position.

No fear. ??

Submitted by gmpierce on Sun, 11/16/2008 - 1:26am.

Right now, it's becoming clear that what we need is leadership. But waiting for the Democrats to provide it is a not very funny joke.
Half of the Democratic "majority" is made up of Rhambo's Blue Dog Democrats. What's most interesting is that Howard Dean revitalized the Democratic Party and now the best he can hope for is that the door doesn't hit him in the ass on his way out.
Rhambo and the gang who couldn't shoot straight walk off with all the marbles - and everyone forgets that they had an unbroken string as losers all the way through this election. We won. They managed not to lose for once.
My personal recommendation for leadership is that we will have to start doing the leading ourselves.
Once it is clear where the mass of people are going, we can count on the Democrats to run as fast as they can in that direction until they are out in front - pretending to lead.

Obama will give us a

Submitted by tinker_toy on Sun, 11/16/2008 - 12:06am.

Republican-light administration, there'll be no need for filibusters. The idiots who voted for him thinking, for instance, that he'll end the war are just that, idiots. Obama has given us enough red flags, voting to fund the war, saying that he would "listen to the generals on the ground" as president (just like Bush), escalate Afghanistan, bomb Pakistan, etc. He voted for the bailout and the FISA bill, you Dem Party Apologists are sickening.

And how perverted is Hillary as Secretary of State? Isn't Obama supposed to be about 'change'? Do we need the same Hillary who said she would obliterate Iran as chief diplomat? The wife of an impeached president who himself committed war crimes when he invaded the Balkans? The Clintons are the furthest thing from change. Bill Clinton should be tried in the Hague with Bush and Cheney for breaking the international rule of law.

Whatever it Takes to Balance the Courts

Submitted by abmabardy on Sat, 11/15/2008 - 9:04pm.

Democrats MUST use their power in any way possible to counter the scores (hundreds?) of right-wing ideological extremists Bush appointed to the courts. This, along with 1 or 2 appointments to the SJC could be the most important way an Obama administration impacts the future of democracy in this country. Also, I agree with a previous poster who said that a filibuster must be more than a threat; it must require someone to stand at the podium for days, weeks, whatever, and undergo relentless national media scrutiny. I'm guessing not too many Rethugs will want that spotlight. Finally, IMO, Lieberman absolutely MUST go. He is a fossil and a traitor, and is of no use to an Obama administration. Because of what he did FOR McSame and AGAINST President-Elect Obama, looking at him makes me hurl.

Why Hillary Should Be Majority Leader

Submitted by neoconned on Sat, 11/15/2008 - 7:47pm.

Instead of stripping the Senate of veteran Democrats, someone needs to remain behind and prevent the Republocans from running things from the minority side of the aisle. Hillary's low campaign for the presidential nomination demonstrates the neccessary cold-bloodedness that Harry Reid has needed to display and yet has not. Hillary would be serving the nation in a much more important way than if she were to defect to the Executive branch as Secretary of State and let the GOP hamstring every initiative the Obama administration would advance.

She hasn't led . . .

Submitted by Dogger on Sat, 11/15/2008 - 10:29pm.

But John Kerry and Chris Dodd have tried to filibuster against Reid's capitulation to the GOP.

Unlike Reid, each have safe seats and can fight GOP obstruction without suffering the fate of Tom Daschle.

Hey Cracker,

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It's "hopium"

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Be careful.

Accidental overdoses are very common.

We Need Direction

Submitted by ernieson on Sat, 11/15/2008 - 2:12pm.

Wallowing around in the quagmire of gridlock has resulted in little to nothing being accomplished. We need our government to assume direction and work toward policies for the good of the citizens of the country and not just corporations. If Congress is going to be a parked truck, there is no need for it to exist. Legislation and floor activity must be more substantive than naming post offices or citing high school athletes. Having watched Congress on C-span for 5 years is an eye-opening, maddening experience making me ask, "And these people are getting paid by taxpayers for doing this????"

Myth Can Become Reality

Submitted by crackerjack on Sat, 11/15/2008 - 1:46pm.

How? By popular demand. Based on? Yes we can.

Winning The Senate Run-off Election In Georgia Is The Start-Up

Submitted by crackerjack on Sat, 11/15/2008 - 2:17pm.

"Made possible by Republican stupidity." "How is that?" "They're turning this run-off into a plebescite on whether or not we're for change." "And why is that stupid." "Who among us isn't for change?" "Anything else?" "Yes we can."

And Once In Motion

Submitted by crackerjack on Sat, 11/15/2008 - 2:22pm.

Perpetual progress. Based on? One equals one. Anything else? Yes we can.

A Simple Solution

Submitted by SpikeHeels on Sat, 11/15/2008 - 1:44pm.

In the past, if a Senator wanted to filibuster he/she had to stand at the podium and not give up that spot until they got what they wanted or the issue died for lack of support or was withdrawn. Filibusters were rare and used only on important issues. The opposing Senator was in the spotlight. That was considered too barbaric for the world's most exclusive club. Now, Senators can say they're filibustering something and then go on vacation.

If the Republicans want to filibuster, make them stand at the podium and recite the New York City phone book, an encyclopedia or whatever they want but they must stand at the podium the whole time and that includes no bathroom breaks.

Bring back the old rules and the filibuster would become rare again.

DINOs In The Senate

Submitted by konopelli on Sat, 11/15/2008 - 1:21pm.

There is not n ow nor has there been for the last 40 years any way on planet earth that the CorpoRats will lose, or forsake, their pocket veto in the Senate... NO WAY! There's the gang of seven, plus the OTHER Nelson Lincoln, Rockefeller, Clapper, Baucus, and a handful of others ready to wield the knife in the back of progressive initiatives or nominations... People are fuukin delusional if they think the CorpoRats, having bought and paid for power, will ever relinquish it, except possibly at gun-point...

a solution

Submitted by beyond outrage on Sat, 11/15/2008 - 1:13pm.

(1)kick traitor Joe off the caucus, let him join the rape-public-cans (2) let them filibuster until their vocal chords drop off. two can play chicken.

Psych!

Submitted by cagey on Sat, 11/15/2008 - 12:45pm.

I can hear that word from the Senate floor as soon as there's a possibility for a filibuster, and it's being said to Harry Reid by the Baucuses and other DINO's. That being said, the American people in ALL THE STATES are fed up with gridlock, and the issues are much more critical to our survival than in the past. Along with a new Senate Majority Leader (somebody with some balls, like Hillary Clinton), the people represented by Republicans like Snowe and Collins and other moderates need to be HOUNDING them not to obstruct legislation for party unity reasons. We ALL need to be hounding Congress relentlessly, especially the Republicans, to let them know we're sick of their political games that get us nowhere.

So, Filibuster

Submitted by urthsong on Sat, 11/15/2008 - 12:44pm.

The senators know that we are facing extremely serious issues. The Republican leadership is splintered. Bush and Cheney will be gone. A number of Republican and Democratic senators will be up for re-election in 2010. Obama has already built an internet supporter network 10 million strong who, if we like what we see, will be ready to run with alerts to our senators as well as representatives. I expect a power tipping point here that will make it feasible to tell the Republicans to follow through with a filibuster threat and lay it on the line to all of us why they object. It might get a little messy. But I think, unless the bills are really unpopular, it would do the Republicans more harm than good. Obama and the Democrats are going to pick their battles. With strong, intelligent leadership on our horizon, I'm not too worried about that. Pat Williams

That's What I Think, Certainly!

Submitted by drprodny on Sat, 11/15/2008 - 11:50am.

What is that saying about Democratic legislators - "herding cats"? Yeah, I wondered how Reid and P-Lousy were going to enforce Party discipline when they never had before....

Exactly

Submitted by Betty on Sat, 11/15/2008 - 11:46am.

This is why Clinton & Kerry need to stay put. I e-mailed Hillary about this but who knows if it will even get read. I think she would make a superb Senate Majority Leader. She's tough enough to get things done.

Dem Senators DON'T WANT a tough Majority leader...

Submitted by vvvc1 on Sat, 11/15/2008 - 5:06pm.

In case you didn't read between the lines, Dem Senators do NOT want a TOUGH Majority leader TELLING THEM WHAT TO DO... cracking the whip down on them.
The Dem. senators can be every bit as prissy, self-centered, (hypocritical), and obstructionist as their GOP "exclusive club" members across the aisle.

(Which is exactly what made Senator Lyndon Johnson such a terrific Majority Leader - he knew how to crack that whip, and as best buddies with fellow Texan, House Speaker Sam Rayburn, the Rayburn-Johnson legislative team was just about every bit as powerful as President Dwight D. Eisenhower in his very presidential prime. Indeed, there are tales in Washington that Majority Leader Johnson used a tunnel to get to secret lunches in the White House at least once a month.)

BUT, the larger point here that Karl's editorial missed, IS THE POWER OF THE BULLY PULPIT... the Democrat's newfound ability to BRING ISSUES to the damn press/media's ATTENTION, and DEMAND COMPETENT COVERAGE of those issues!

That is, for the past 8 years, the press/media has ONLY told the Rethuglican point of view ('POV'), because the CORPORATE media was ALIGNED with the goals of the Bush-Cheney radical Repubs.
(Namely, concentrating ever more power in the hands of an ever smaller elite minority - the model by which British noble, absentee landlords were able to inflict the Great Famine on Ireland as recently as the 1840s, effectively treating the Irish populace as stray dogs or worse.)

WE SEE where THAT agenda of "loot the public and working-stiff taxpayers in favor of the wealthy elite" has gotten us here in America as well - and it is most certainly NOT a popular agenda here in America, once that cold, economic reality hits home, past the Right-Wing Republican "all those who oppose us are traitors!" talking points.

Now that Americans have seen first hand, NOT ONCE but TWICE, that Bush presidency DEFICIT/DEREGULATION economics LEADS TO RECESSIONS and economic RUIN for THOUSANDS of Americans, it is up to Democrats to POUND THAT MESSAGE HOME -

- to WELCOME RETHUG. FILIBUSTERS for GETTING THOSE RETHUGLICAN SENATORS _ON_THE_RECORD as OBSTRUCTING the programs - like SOCIAL SECURITY SOLVENCY, UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE, FDIC PROTECTION OF OUR bank accounts, STRICTER OVERSIGHT of OUR PENSION FUNDS and financial markets - on each and every one of these issues near and dear to American worker's hearts, THE right-wing Republicans ARE OBSTRUCTIONISTS if not outright saboteurs!

(They clearly would have LOVED to do to SOCIAL SECURITY what Bernake, Greenspan, Paulson, Bush, Cheney, Phil Gramm, et al did to the stock market!)

Democrats, TAKE THAT FILIBUSTER FIGHT, as an OPPORTUNITY to EXPOSE RETHUGLICANS as OBSTRUCTIONISTS out to WRECK American jobs, pensions, health care, public education, & etc.!

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