Dear Senator Obama: Regarding FISA, What About the Rule of Law?
A BUZZFLASH READER CONTRIBUTION
Anyone who reads BuzzFlash knows that we have favored Barack Obama, but supporting a candidate doesn't mean blind loyalty.
So tell us what you think of this letter to Senator Obama from a BuzzFlash reader.
Mark Karlin
Editor and Publisher
BuzzFlash.com
Dear Senator Obama,
Thank you for wanting to protect our lives and liberty. As far as your support for the FISA bill is concerned, let me just say you've done a "heck of a job".
There is nothing in the new FISA law that stops Bush from continuing everything he has been doing. It allows illegally obtained surveillance to be used as evidence against American citizens.
What you are saying is "Trust them. They will monitor themselves by their hand picked Inspectors". Yeah, that's the ticket.
Just like the Office of Professional Responsibility in the Justice Department has yet to catch one errant lawyer. And if it did find any misconduct, it would, of course, be their little secret. And their required annual report has just come for fiscal year 2005.
Yes, we can trust them... to do what they do.
And you are also saying "Trust me, I'll take care of the secret operation later as I see fit...if I am elected"
I have another idea. Let's trust the Bill of Rights.
Senator, few would argue that you are not a brilliant man. Voting for the FISA bill was a reasoned calculation and an intelligent political move. I think I understand the motivations for your vote. What I do not see is the wisdom of it.
You have allowed them to get away with crimes! Any time they, and you, Senator, speak of the rule of law; you will be tainted by the hypocrisy of your elitist double standards. No one else in America has the luxury of bending the law to fit their wrongful behavior.
Sadly, you have also lost the opportunity for desperately needed leadership in defending our Constitution.
The day will come when you may find yourself sharing the same sense of shame as Colin Powell feels for his pre-invasion war mongering at the UN. You will share the disgrace of abetting the crimes and rogue presidency of George W. Bush.
I had wished that you would not be reduced to selling your soul for the job you seek. I had once, briefly, held onto the hope that you would keep it.
You probably know that having a soul, or a conscience, is not necessary to be president. The current gang in the White House has proven that, at all our expense.
Undermining the Fourth Amendment is the kind of change George Bush believes in.
Removing the corporate foxes from the public’s henhouse is the kind of change most Americans believe in.
I continue to hope that it is your desire and goal that the United States will once again have a government of national laws and not of the illegalities of men and women in high places.
Hopefully yours,
Dave Dubya
(Last sentence edited by BuzzFlash.)
A BUZZFLASH READER CONTRIBUTION
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it is an ex post facto law
sar michael
"but the liberal deviseth liberal things, and by liberal things shall he stand."
isaiah 32:8
i too am gravely disappointed in barack obama for voting for the fisa amendments. i too am taking another look at nader.
my dictionary defines "ex post facto" as retroactive. article 1, section 9, paragraph 3 of the u.s. constitution says congress shall make no ex post facto laws. the fisa amendments bill is unconstitutional on its face.
if this fact was not understood by the lawmakers who voted "yes" then they are incompetent to uphold their oath of office. if it was known (and i noticed in the debate i listened to that no one mentioned that it was an ex post facto law) then those same lawmakers have violated their oath of office willfully. either way they do not deserve to serve the people as their representatives.
congress is derelict in its duty to preserve and protect the constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic. certainly, the present administration has proven itself over and over to be a domestic enemy of the constitution. now, the majority of congress has shown itself to fall into that category.
with a solid four votes on the us supreme court for the "unitary executive" and plenary powers for the executive in time of war we may even lose there.
of course, congress never really declared war so we are officially not at war and the plenary powers of the unitary executive violate the tenth amendment to the constitution, which states: "the powers not delegated to the united states by the constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people."
there is a good constitutional argument to be made against this fisa amendments law and we might get a 5-4 decision in the scotus.
Unconstitutional, but not ex post facto
The Senator from Verizon has once again CHANGED(tm) the world (a million 14-year old girls swoon at the thought) and made things much much worse.
Obama and FISA
Obama has lost my trust
Congress' aproval rating dropped to 9% after the FISA vote,
By All Means, complain and send your comments to Obama
Two questions:
1: What actually would have been different if Obama voted against it?
2. This issue can be revisited. Who is more likely to get rid of it and take us back to the original FISA (with technical improvements) after he is elected, Obama or McCain?
Our job is to get better Democrats into office who won't vote for this crap, who will overwhelm the bluedogs, and eviscerate the power of such as Steney Hoyer. Donna Edwards was a good start. Tom Udall (NM), Darcy Burner(WA), Larry Kissel (NM), and a whole lot of others.
Yes the Constitution is critical as is withdrawing from Iraq, but we don't have a way to do anything now, except impeachment. Which isn't happening.
So we do what we can to change things.
A senator only has one vote, no matter how well known; this passed by a big number.
Again: what would be different if Obama voted against FISA?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
“With public sentiment, nothing can fail; without it, nothing can succeed. Consequently, he who molds public sentiment goes deeper than he who enacts statutes or pronounces decisions.” Abraham Lincoln
"would be different if Obama voted against FISA?" Your turn...
"what would be different if Obama voted against FISA?"
Kucinich was my first choice, too
It seems like it may not be too late for the Democrats to nominate Clinton for president. Neither candidate has enough delegates to win on the first ballot. And the super delegates don't actually cast their ballots until there is a deadlock at the convention in Denver. Several hundred super delegates have pledged to vote for Obama (hence making him the "presumptive" nominee), but they -- as well as any or all of the other "pledged" delegates are free to change their vote up until the very moment it is cast.
Pretty weak and wordy, with all due respect.
Nationalism is not terrorism. And an adversary is not an enemy.
Those two sentences have been my signature for years and sincerely have meaning to me, especially as a Democrat, whose had to watch for over a decade as the Right, with the help of pro-business and pro-war panderers installed as new Congressmen through Emanuel and Schumer's respective selective campaign committees - which happen to be funded by those same big business and pro-war donors, twisted the rest of the Democratic party into a bunch of self centered cowardly poodles.
Bush has been enabled fully in all that he has wrought, with their help.
Spit out the truth - Obama damn well knew we of the online community were willing to put our money where our mouth was, and support someone who represented the core principles of what's great about a Democracy.
He knew the key to a great Democracy was to harness the power of the people.
Howard Dean understood that too. Without Dean -who rallied us- to save their asses, Schumer and Emanuel's Congress would have lost their 7th election.
After that '06 win, Hoyer and Reid -both centrists -took the peoples' hard work and winning votes -told Dean and the 'activists' to go f*** themselves -and handed them over to the Right - crying and whining all the way about how their failures weren't their fault.
They let Bush and Cheney get away with murder, and couldn't say a damn word about it- because they were accomplices to it.
Now comes Obama, about to do the exact same ***damn thing:
The word 'centrist' is a joke. Look at Bayh and Harold Ford Jr.and ask yourself "Are these decisive leaders, with a firm vision -of anything??" Hell no.
I'm a Quest customer. Had anyone told me that (a)Obama would give it up to ATT - I never would have supported him and (b) had anyone told me Obama was, at heart, another DLC Democrat like Ford or Bayh - Iowa never would have happened.
The Problem I have will all this is........
Hillary got the most votes, Missy
For your information, "most Democratic voters" voted for Hillary Clinton in the primary. She got more votes than Obama and more votes than any other Democrat in history. The reason Obama has more delgates is because of the weird, screwed-up method that the Democratic Party uses to assign the delegates. So, you should get your little fairytale story straight before you start telling people who know the truth to "just shut the hell up", Missy.
I lost a lot of my enthusiasm for Obama
Come on, people... Think!!!
The immunity is only for civil suits, not for criminal charges. The purpose of civil suits was to challenge the affront to civil liberties in court since the administration was certainly not going to charge itself with a crime. But we know all too well that corporations are very adept at delaying tactics, and nothing would have been resolved in less than 10 years.
On the other hand, Sen. Obama has stated clearly that his administration will survey the actions of the current one for criminal activity and will prosecute. Obama attempted to get the telecom civil immunity stripped from the FISA bill, but that failed. Voting for the bill after that prevents a new version being floated that might include criminal immunity as well.
A civil suit is an attack on the stockholders (including many people's retirement accounts,) who had no idea of the executives' collaboration with the administration. Criminal charges go after the people truly responsible.
.."will 'survey' the actions"...???
Spoken like a true fence sitting centrist.
But that's not the Obama I knew - the one who marched into Idaho unafraid.
Nationalism is not terrorism. And an adversary is not an enemy.
Fence Sitting Centrist?
Not by a long shot!!! My ideals would be more radical than 98% of the folks who read and post here.
But my ideals would require human beings who had evolved a more logical (Vulcan?) mind, and we would do better to deal with the world as it is, as opposed to the Faithbased community.
"Survey" was my choice of words. I can't recall exactly what Obama said.
spoken like a ...stockholder?
Civil Suits
The owners (stockholders) do have a responsibility for the deeds of the corporation. When the greed of shareholders drives the CEO to use creative accounting to keep the share price rising, that is.
The collaboration with the Bush administration was not done for profit, so I am more considerate of the stockholders.
But the main point is that civil suits take years to resolve, and the corporation has more money for a legal team than you do. And there's little incentive for lawyers to do it on contingency, since it would have to be proven that the people suing had suffered some loss that the judge could put a value on. Did it cause injury or death? Did you lose income? If the case were won, the best you could hope for is payment of legal costs.
ummm....
The FISA sellout was Pelosi-Hoyer-Reid corruption & complicity..
Randi Rhodes, who is still light-years ahead of most librul/Democrat blogs (not to mention, a _million_ light years ahead of "major media"), has reported that the Telecom lobby has spent $13 million lobbying Congress this past year, and no issue is more important to the Telecoms than immunity for retroactively submitting to the Bush White House NSA's demands for unlimited telecom surveillance, huge "data dumping" of _every_ transmission that crosses telecom servers, that is, every electronic communications in America.
IF the Democrats got half of the $13 million in lobbying donations, that means that Pelosi's 110th Congress Democrats got about $7 million in telecom donations. This number actually seems small, given the importance of the telecom bill to the multi-billion dollar telecom corporations, and that (for example) the auto industry thinks nothing of spending close to 10% of its earnings on advertisements to stoke good PR and stimulate sales.
So anyways, for somewhere between $7 and $20 million, Speaker Pelosi and the Democrat "leadership" SOLD OUT tens of millions of Democratic voters. Every two years Democratic and independent donors donate some $200 MILLION to the DNC, DCCC, DSCC, and other national level Dem party organizations, in hopes that Democrats will provide SOME OPPOSITION to the radical right-wing agenda of the Bush-Republican Party.
In doing the bidding of the Telecoms for a lousy $10 or $20 million, Speaker Pelosi has not only scuffed the "Democratic brand" but she has THROWN TAR all over the Democratic presumptive presidential nominee!
Since Senator Obama has not bucked the House & Senate "leadership's" Horrendous Telecom immunity bill, I have not once reached into my wallet to make another $25 campaign donation. I had been thinking about flying out to Colorado for the convention, but that no longer seems like the glorious opportunity it once did.
In plain English, Speaker Pelosi, Whip Hoyer, and Majority Leader Reid have ROBBED the Dem (presumptive) nominee of AT LEAST $10 million in good will and "brand value."
Their CAPITULATION to the Bush White House is disgraceful, and they have smeared the Dem. (presumptive) nominee with that disgrace.
My college senior level Political Science course "Parties and Interest Groups" explained that one of the primary functions of a political party or interest group is to INFORM VOTERS about the issue important to that party/group.
Pelosi and Reid have ABROGATED that RESPONSIBILITY to INFORM American voters about the abuses of law of Bush-Cheney co. They ALLOW the American media - the corporate DC press corps - to DEFINE the political parameters in gray, war-on-terror terms, instead of hauling administration officials before Congress to explain abuses and evasions - the way that Republicans did ALL THROUGH the 8 years of the Clinton administration.
To be a Democratic voter under the tender mercies of Pelosi and Reid is to be a SECOND CLASS CITIZEN, Pelosi & Reid putting the desires of REPUBLICAN LOBBYISTTS _ahead_ of the desires of Democratic voters.
WILL Senator Obama be able to overcome the GREAT BIG NEGATIVE, not "Reformer" but usiness-as-usual, deflation of brand-name that Pelosi and Reid have just dealt him?
Will Pelosi & Reid have SNATCHED DEFEAT from the Jaws of Victory, as Gore, Daschle, Kerry (and Lieberman) did before them?
Heck, why don't Pelosi and Hoyer and Reid just start running around with Senator McCain, as Senator Leiberman now does. At least they would be more honest about who they truly represent.
Obama may be the new leader
Senator Obama's vote FOR FISA "compromise
Obama's failure to singlehandedly stop the Senate pro-FISA vote
But could you tell me what effect his voting against FISA would have accomplished? What would that change? What, besides a fair number of opinions of him, would be different?
Would life be any better? I mean the vote wasn't even close. I am pissed at Congress and especially at Steny Hoyer as well as Reid and Pelosi for bringing it up. I hope for the courts to weigh in.
In the meantime I will work to get Obama elected. I consider the alternative. And no, Nader is not better. He is able to appear so pure because he has never had a vote in elected office.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
“With public sentiment, nothing can fail; without it, nothing can succeed. Consequently, he who molds public sentiment goes deeper than he who enacts statutes or pronounces decisions.” Abraham Lincoln, 1858.
Look to your own words...
The very essence of why Obama ran was exactly because things weren't changing- "the status quo", remember?
Obama may win the office yet, but not with the sweeping wave once thought. And what does that mean??
4 more years- of Hoyer and Reid and Lieberman and Rockefeller and Schumer -in control of the Congress. And with the same Republicans blocking their every move because the Dems didn't win enough new seats.
Nationalism is not terrorism. And an adversary is not an enemy.
Sam and Codypup, it's called "Holding His Feet to the Fire"
Would you rather have a President who shows a decent respect for the rights of his people, or some Spoiled Boy-King Wannabe like the current occupant of the White House? By the time he takes the White House, Obama will have all the implied powers Bush has given himself and nobody's yanked away from him - and unlike Bush, Obama is really smart and not at all lazy, and to add to it all he'll be the first non-White President ever. He has to know that there are thousands, maybe millions of rabid-dogshit-crazy racist Ammurikans out there who would gleefully pull the trigger on him given half a chance - worse, all those organizations we want to see President Obama hold accountable for their actions under Bush know it, too...and unlike the rabid-dogshit-crazy racist Ammurikans, THEY'VE been reading everybody's e-mails and listening to everybody's phone calls for the last eight years.
Don't tell me that Chertoff of Homeland Security, Hayden of the CIA or Alexander of the NSA, who know they'll be in the crosshairs of an Obama Administration investigation into abuse of power under Bush, wouldn't just love to hand the new President fresh-off-the-tree cherrypicked intelligence informing him of all the assassination and domestic terror plots against him by rabid-dogshit-crazy etc. etc.'s? And, for the Good of the President and the Country, would it be all right if President Obama let the too-important-to-blow-with-public-disclosure secret wiretaps and e-mails readings continue...and maybe even let them try and get an agent in place to rip the whole mess apart? Obama's absolutely smart, but all this spy stuff is very seductive once you're On The Inside - and by the time Obama remembers he won the Presidency at least partially by promising to abide by the rule of law, he's ALREADY in the cloak & dagger stuff up to his neck - and Chertoff, Hayden and Alexander all have evidence that Obama was the one who gave the Thumbs-Up to a patently Unconstitutional domestic espionage caper...and isn't he just as glad the FISA law means the only person who can call him to account on it is, well, President Barack Obama...?
This is why I shake my head in contempt and disgust at people who proudly say they "never read fiction", b/c they often miss what's going on under the surface by just reading nonfiction. In a lot of cases, it's spy thrillers and military adventures by fiction writers like John LeCarre, Ross Thomas, Michael Dobbs, Tom Clancy, H. Jay Riker and WEB Griffin that give you insights into how and why these people think and do what they do, and why people who say one thing w/their words say quite another w/their deeds.
STEP BACK AND LET THE MAN TAKE OFFICE.....
well . . .
Absolutely Send It
I can understand, or at least live with, everything else he's "moved to the Center on" - but The Bill of Rights is NOT to be discarded just so somebody can "look tuff".... :(
Amen!
For "intelligent" substitute "paid"
Wingnuts won't vote for a mere neocon wannabee. Liberals won't vote for a neocon wannabee. Centrists won't vote for a flip-flopper. Everyone would rather have a strong Democrat leader rather than a DLC-ocrat who preemptively surrenders to fascism at every opportunity.
FISA was never an intelligent political move. It was a paid political move. The senator from Verizon was simply following orders.
Dear Senator Obama: Regarding FISA, What About the Rule of Law?