The Death of Conservatism and Thus Liberalism's Demise?

I will miss hiim.  How can one not miss someone who so consistently and brazenly sets up for destruction an entire, destructive politcal mythos?   The open presentation of Carpenter's vapid and repetitive calls against action and boat-rocking in a venue permitting comment has been extremely valuable to showing the utter worthlessness of his power-friendly strategy.

I see the what of it all, and I see it the same way as P.M. But why are things like this?

It is difficult to identify a time when politics were this polarized except during the lead up to the Civil War and the ten years following the Washington administration. During those two eras, the Jeffersonian party followed by the Jacksonian party amassed political power by fanning the flames of fear of the federal (big?) government. They also ginned up fear and loathing of an (north) east coast aristocracy who wanted to change traditional values (slavery) of the South.

While I disagree bitterly the the Jeffersonian philosophy, I can at least understand it. It was coherent. The same goes for the Jacksonian philosphy. But I honestly cannot understand the logic of the modern conservative philosophy. So, I cannot understand how things have gotten this polarized and bitter.

I will miss P.M. at lot, but I doubt I will miss him for long.

..but like all dreams they do not always turn out the way you want when you wake up. They two parties may end up in the ash heap brought on by their inert and basic stupidity --and greed--but what will come? Your prediction may be well wide of the mark.

The French revolution was to rid itself of runaway power of Monarchy but what it got was Napoleon and Napoleonic wars. We just reversed that, we got the runaway wars first, what is to follow?

But I have no complaints--i voted for 'hope and change' and I got it!

My 'hope' was for a new White House dog and to get rid of the cur. That's the 'change' we got.  I got my 'hope'. Be happy, dream on.

As for Evening Carp, I will miss him. He has been a real rallying point for these discussions. Carp has thrown wide roundhouse blows, hitting nothing, but he moves a lot of air. I will miss that.

Today's Moderatism as a practical philosophy is a joke.  How about Charles "Death Panel" Grassley - they guy who was the moderate.  How about John McCain - remember him - the guy who elevated Sarah Palin?  How about Hillary Clinton - did you catch her speech explaining how difficult it was to vote for George Bushs disaster in Iraq - how it was the most difficult thing ever for her but she had to, vote for George Bushss disaster in Iraq - in favor.  Hillary Clinton the moderate, who wanted to talk about the superdelegates, please superdelegates in the Democrat primary who have the power to override the primary electorate, please superdelegates oh but they wouldn't would they. 

So you have "Moderates", like Hillary Clinton, John McCain, Charles Grassley, Blanche Lincoln who just joined with Republicans to filibuster the climate bill and "Moderates" like whats-his-name who joined with Republicans to filibuster unemployment stimulus during an economic crisis.  "Moderates" who had such a hard time, casting votes in favor of George Bushs disaster in Iraq. 

Conservatism is what it always was, the mythical era when Conservatives were good is nostalgia and BS, ask black folks, ask the Vietnamese, ask the Guatemalans, and you know I could go on and on and on - Conservatism is no worse today than it ever was - people just now woke up and noticed. 

Carp, what you say may be true, but I think it is just as likely that we may see the dissolution of the party which has represented conservation for the last 50 some-odd years (at least)--the Republican Party--rather than the ideology of conservatism itself. If that should occur--and the dissolution of the Democratic Party then follows--I will not shed many tears, for liberalism should also remain in tact in its various forms, regardless of the political structure which encorporates it.

There are an infinite (it seems) number of strains within the two ideologies, and those strains must be hashed out amongst its members, but the hashing out will probably occur, the ideologies should morph and change all amoeba-like as they always do, and they should survive, as they do all over the world.

The key, if I follow your post correctly, is what if this strain of conservatism is such a cancer that it cannot provide enough stability to prevent itself from briefly imploding--thus removing the polar sounding board from which liberalism derives much of its identity and thus destroys liberalism, too, before stability is reintroduced.

Good point. It's food for thought.

For it seems to me that the implosion of the Republican Party--and thus conservatism--is destroying the country as it implodes. So the irony is that liberalism may not have time for its own destruction; we may be too busy dealing with and fleeing the remains of what was once a great country, before the implosion of conservatism brings us all down with it.

It is a possible future. Of course, conservatism could contain (or obtain) a self-correcting mechanism saving them (and us) from destruction.

Only time will tell.