I began to write that Keith Olbermann had the most bizarre opening segment last night, until I realized that in cable news' overall coverage of this story, there was nothing bizarre about it at all. It was, rather, run-of-the-mill misrepresentation and sensationalistic spin; no doubt good for ratings, but b-b-bad to the bone for the brain. It was, in short, O'Reillyesque. Perhaps you saw it, too, but if you didn't ...
Olbermann's rundown of upcoming stories led, as ordinal logic would have it, with an overwrought preview of the first piece, thus fulfilling the sensationalism requirement. Then came the opening piece itself, which was mildly less overwrought but rounded things out in the procrustean misrepresentation department.
Obama is selling us out! went Olbermann's voluble narrative, for starters, soon followed by the shocking revelation that a virtual army of irate Obama supporters is signing a petition which pleads with the president to fight, fight, fight for the public option -- or else.
Then, after some brief blandness by guest Clarence Page, of the Chicago Tribune, Mr. Olbermann was joined by Daily Kos' Markos Moulitsas, both of whom promptly danced in harmony to the already clichéd trope that what Obama is so methodically, insidiously doing looms far from the happy landscape of change we can believe in.
There's nothing like a story of betrayal and revenge. This, playwrights have known throughout the ages, and cable-news producers and anchors are no less profitably keen on the genre. And why muddle a great drama with the banality of facts? In this instance, merely one fact -- an unshakable, cantankerous, fixed fact, which I'll reproduce here in all its varied and nuanced manifestations:
Obama doesn't have the votes.
He doesn't have the votes.
HE doesn't have the votes.
He DOESN'T have the votes.
He doesn't HAVE the votes.
He doesn't have THE votes.
He doesn't have the VOTES.
He
doesn't
have
the
votes.
He
doesn't
have
the
votes.
He
doesn't
have
the
votes.
setov eht evah t'nseod eH.
He doesn't have the votes!
He doesn't have the votes!!
HE DOESN'T HAVE THE BLOODY VOTES.
This is not presidential quantum mechanics, it's not some straining for a Unified Theory of universal politics, it's not even a congressional Rubik's Cube. It's simple arithmetic, upon whose counting comes up each and every time short of 60 -- a magical if not undemocratic watershed that, even going the route of reconciliation, must be met.
Obama did not dictate the shortfall, and in this age of narrow senatorial self-interest over the vast public good, Obama cannot compensate with presidential strong-arming, especially when his job-approval numbers are tanking, which they're doing, in significant part, because of the aforementioned unmanageable shortfall.
He ... does ... not ... have ... the ... votes.
But how sexy is that for a cable-news lede, compared to an eye-popping, heart-thumping, brain-deadening saga of betrayal and revenge?
Votes, what votes?
He does not have the votes because he does not need the votes. It has been a done deal for a long time now. What Rahm wants is big Pharma money locked in Democratic coffers.
They are trying to throw bones like non-profit co-ops and triggers to the street. They got away with deals with the banks, Wall St. money and pork for the Pentagon so why not this.
And Obama does deliver a good speech. Put that on your plate and eat it.
Pardon me, but we do not have to buy their shit or work for them
The powers that be only make money because we buy their shit. We stop buying their shit, they lose their asses.
The powers that be can only sell shit to us because we produce it. If we don't make it, they can't sell it, because you know they won't get off their fat asses and do the work themselves.
Maybe it's time to remind the powers that be that we can stop spending and working whereever and whenever we feel like.
Our labor organizing skills may be a wee bit rusty... but we've got Twitter. So there. :)
P.M.'s problem, explained five ways
P.M. has lost his nerve.
P.M. has forgotten his convictions.
P.M. has forfeited his rationality.
P.M. is trying to defend the indefensible.
P.M. is alienating his audience.
C'mon, Mr. Carpenter, please, CUT THE CRAP! I would expect this utterly simplistic nonsense from the right-wing kooks and hoodwinkers. You are well-educated, and bright, but your latest article definitely qualifies for sheer idiocy! So many factors are wrong, it is tough to know where to begin.
To stop a filibuster, Harry Reid (our incredibly spineless excuse for a
"Senate Majority Leader") could just keep the Senate in session 24 hours per day, and threaten to call a quorum at any time. This would require all 40 of the rotten Republicrook senators to stay and live in the chamber, while only Reid or another pro-tem Dem be there. LET THE BASTARDS LIVE ON PIZZA AND PISS!!! Also, he could "go nuclear" and do away with the filibuster entirely, as Bill Frist threated to do on several occasions... And if you think that is somehow barbaric, what do you call a bunch of self-serving, arrogant greedy "Senators" (who don't give one shit about the national interest) holding up legislation that would so obviously BE in the national interest?
So, put this "doesn't have the votes" bullshit to bed already, and leave it there. Reid couldn't find the votes with 95 of his own senators!!
It gets worse. Obama now wants to pressure the 80 or so House Dems (the only morally courageous politicians left apparently) who insist on the public option to be "good soldiers" (for who, the pharma and insurance robber-barons?) and support a bill without a public option, but they (House Dems) have already compromised far too much.
What a sheer joke and utter disappointment this administration has rapidly become. And P.M., come on back to our side, quit pretending. I've read through the voluminous posts, mostly critical of you, and justifiably so! In point of fact, it was your writing that was much more "O'Reillyesque" than anything portrayed on Countdown.
Rahm Emanuel might be mean to Obama
Remember, Obama is a historic President.
First invertebrate (no spine, no bones) elected President.
Obama is a coward. Stop defending the coward.
Obama has surrendered to Rahm Emanuel anything and everything he wanted. Rahm just raises his voice a little, and Obama surrenders. Things that had nothing to do with this health care plan, or required votes in Congress.
Obama hasn't ANYTHING he said he would do. Not just health care. Not bills Congress needs to pass. THINGS THAT ONLY REQUIRE EXECUTIVE ORDERS. Obama is batting .000.
My Health Reform Plan
If you break a leg or have high blood pressure then you or your insurance provider pay for it.
If it's communicable, we the people pay. No copay, free meds, free hospitalization. Whatever it takes to get you or me healthy again.
You have every right to say no to a flu shot or vaccines for your children. If you don't get your flu shot or children vaccinated, the rest of us have the right to quarentine you and/or your kids at your expense so we don't get your freakin' disease. Can't pay the quarentine? No problem. Work it off at the federal minimum wage rate by doing community service just like any other scofflaw.
You don't want single payer or a public option? No problem. Mandate medical insurance providers cover everyone. No preconditions and no $8 an hour CSR's overruling considered medical opinion. Otherwise, compete.
Big Pharma is told we U.S citizens will no longer pay 100% of their research and development. We will pay our pro rata share and not a dime more. I'm tired of subsidizing those smug Canadians, Europeans and Asians. The alternative Big Pharma is collective bargaining whereby We the People tell you what we're willing to pay for your products. Just like those smug Canadians, Europeans & Asians.
Oh and before I forget, if your doctor says you're disabled, you get full medical care immediately. No more waiting for two years for medicaid to kick in.
Obama doesn't have the votes you say? Well Obama should tell a few Dem Senators not a dime in stimulus money gets spent in their State until he does have their vote. And if he still doesn't have the votes you say? Not a dime from the DNC for re-election and there will be a primary challenge.
Still no? Come Wednesday night, Obama names the votes he doesn't have, announces health care reform will be brought forward in his second term when he has a more supportive Congress.
We're still only 59 votes. We need 60, you say? Okay, which Republican does Obama and the DNC not oppose in 2010?
Bottom line
The bottom line is that there is too much money being given by corporate health interests to too many senators.
its the media stupid
The root of the dilemma we face is the american "news" media. The only way this entire reality can be stood on its head, is by the mass manipulation of public opinion, through the ridiculous propaganda that americans are trained to think of as news. Its amazing how dumbed down our society has become when they are convinced to believe the utterly ridiculous by the media. Without this cancer on democracy(the corpo media), it wouldnt be possible to keep up an illusion of opposition to a wildly popular idea. Our people have become so ignorant they can be swayed by a few hundred unhinged disciples of dobson and beck, and a "news" media who shows countless ads from the very companies who would profit by the status qou(mainly Pharma). Our electorate has become so addled they cant see a conflict of interest if it bites em in the ass. I know these big shot dems in congress and ol Barack himself can figure this out. It aint rocket science folks. Without this media hype machine turning a small minority into a "political juggernaught" health care would be a done deal and the people would love it and be happy. Until you see a democrat leader make a frontal and withering assault on this media disease, and break up their control of information , you know they are in the tank of the same coprorations, and dont give a hoot about you. Change has to begin with the destruction of this propaganda ministry that is the television news. Its rotten head has to be cut clean off and buried forever. If the truth were known about what real health reform would mean for average people, and the ridiculous lies were debunked instead of amplified by these stalwarts of the 4th estate, this would be easy. For these treasonous bastards the death of the truth is paramount.
Time to vote for the Green Party!
The Democrats aren't going to give us healthcare for all.
The Democrats aren't going to give us an even break.
The Democrats are on the corporate payroll; the majority of their income comes from corporate sources.
The Democrats think the insurance corporations are too big to fail, and that we're too little to matter.
Time to replace them.
The Green Party doesn't accept ANY corporate money.
The Green Party has been strenuously for Medicare-for-all from the beginning.
The Green Party represents CITIZENS' interests.
The Green Party will get Federal matching funds when they get 5% of the vote.
It'll take several elections to replace the Democrats with Greens. Voting Green won't get you health care in the next election. But voting Democratic won't either; we've seen that.
Right now the Democrats think they can sell us out to the insurance corporations, and we have nowhere else to go. They're wrong; the Green Party is on the ballot in every state. Let's show them how wrong they are: Vote Green!
He doesn't have the votes
becasue he doesn't want the votes.
Get the votes- Half a solution is no solution
From what I can see, the White House has not been working hard enough to get the votes. I don't need to Keith Olberman to tell me I'm being sold out - I had figured tht out already. From apearances at this moment, Obama is trying too hard to placate those that won't be placated. I hope that at the end of the day the President pulls a rabbit out of the hat and gets the public option into a bill that passes. I can forgive failure to get a comprehensive health care reform bill passed- but I haven't seen the White House put much muscle behind the effort. Worse still, they have let the radical right wing define the debate. If he signs a bill that doesn't guarantee that every citizen of this country can receive medical care without bankruptcy, well then he has sold us out. There has never been a progressive social policy that has been passed with bipartisan support from the right wing, from the new deal to medicare, the right has always opposed it. He's tried- now is the time to show them to be the obstructionist reactionaries they have always been. NO HALFWAY MEASURES
THREE LITTLE WORDS
GET THE VOTES!
How about three little words?
PAY TO PLAY
And then 2 more:
Had Enough?
Direct your ire at Obama's enemies
Some of the language directed at Carpenter is inexcusable.I don't agree with what he wrote either, but he's not a bad person because he says Obama doesn't have the votes.
If Obama doesn't go all out for the public option we all lose, but it won't be PM's fault.
Colleen Clark Cambridge, MA
Don't try to reframe the argument
This is not about "Obama's enemies". This is about WE THE PEOPLE's enemies, which does indeed include Obama and the rest of his Blue Dog DINO-Fascists who bow to their upper 1% plutocracy masters.
The language directed at Carpenter is excusable, his language is not. And no one is blaming Carpenter for Obama's failures, that is your delusional straw dog.
Name calling is childish.
"Pathetic" "Idiotic" "snarky"
I'm not trying to "reframe the argument".
I just think some of the language is nasty and even childish.
Argue the points. No need to call Carpenter names. If you like that kind of language so be it. I don't. But it has nothing to do with arguments.
And don't call me or my comments "delusional."
My final observation based on reading lots and lots of comments online is that this kind of name calling seems to be a guy thing. It's the verbal equivalent of punching your opponent rather than "using your words" as the nursery school teachers urge.
Colleen Clark Cambridge, MA
So what?
America should have Single Payer, but a real Public Option is close enough for now ......... and anything else is garbage that should not pass anyway.
Just put the best plan up for a Congressional vote, and let the electorate decide if those opposing it deserve to be reelected next time.
The Actual Problem
People keep talking about the polling showing strong support for the public option, but this doesn't translate to enough votes in the Senate. Why? First, because the filibuster rules require 60 votes to pass anything. That's a huge requirement: you need three yes votes for every two no votes. But also, every state, regardless of population, gets two senators. Wyoming has as much representation in the Senate as California, even though the population ratio is something like 30:1. Those big, unpopulated states tend to be Republican. Is it any wonder Democrats have so much trouble getting legislation passed? The problem is built into the Senate. Scrapping the filibuster would be a good choice. It helps Republicans more than Democrats."
You've hit on the real problem. The real reason why progressives never can get anything passed, regardless of popularity. The founding fathers were garbage. They created the most undemocratic "democracy" they could. And why wouldn't they? They were off killing natives, and raping slaves in their free time (minority rights). These guys didn't give a shit about anybody but other worthless crackers. If Obama had not f'ed up the selling of this so called reform ("medicare expansion" would have been a useful term), and actually passed this public option, it would have just been a rare gaming of a broken system.
Edit: I meant to post this as a reply below, sorry for the double post.
Repetitious idiocy
Mr. Carpenter appears to think repeating an offensively idiotic comment somehow will make it seem reasonable.
If Obama doesn't have the votes, it's because he is an incompetent leader of his party. Obama is is a fool if he thinks his job is to be popular rather than a respected leader.
Mr. Carpenter, stop repeating yourself. We understood your idiotic statement the first time.
FDR didn't have the votes for Social Security or any of the other New Deal programs he wanted. Guess what? He got the votes. He twisted arms. He banged heads. He spoke clearly to the public as their leader. Lyndon Johnson didn't have the votes for the 1964 Civil Rights Act or for Medicare. And guess what? He twisted the arms he had to twist, banged a whole bunch of heads, convinced the public of the need for Civil Rights and Medicare and he got the votes he needed.
Mr. Carpenter, you're an idiot.
This fact is so obvious I only have to type it once.
What happened, Andy?
Just a few, short months ago, you were here trashing Hillary Clinton and consistently singing the many praises of Obama, while simultaneously attacking anyone who offered even the mildest criticism or doubts about Obama. Now, just a few short months later, you're back calling Obama incompetent and attacking PM Carpenter for his (admittedly stupid) defense of Obama ..........even though he's just doing the same thing you were doing during the primary.
Guess PM should take your idiocy comments to heart, ....
... given your level expertise.
Well said.
Mr. Carpenter, people here fought their asses off for this man who stood up like Lincoln, Roosevelt (both) and Kennedy, and who now has allowed himself to be backed off of virtually every campaign pledge by a defeated and humiliated opposition as well as a few pathetic whores in his own ranks. People are pissed as hell, contemplating the ruin of the nation they loved and fought for, and here you come taunting and patronizing... most people here see a lot more than you. Take a long walk.
upside down reasoning and logic
PM is arguing backwards. Obama doesn't have the votes because he's unpopular? He doesn't have the votes because he just doesn't? It's precisely the opposite - he doesn't lead. Leadership would produce votes. And leadership would increase - or have maintained all along - his approval numbers. That PM doesn't - or refuses to - see this compels me to wonder whether all these recent BuzzFlash columns aren't just an elaborate audition for a White House position - hopefully in public relations. BTW, great mockery on the "he doesn't have the votes" diagrams PM drew, fellow posters. And for a 2nd BTW, I discovered this website thru PM's previous blog when he joined. He's now lost me completely. (And I know, what took so long? I was hoping against hope.) Finally, what PM insists is Olbermann's overwrought coverage I call righteous and well-deserved outrage.
Your editor acts like such a
Your editor acts like such a jackass and writes so poorly, on this site (never having met an unmixable metaphor), that it is amazing to me every time I hear him on the radio and he sounds like a very sane, articulate person. Only a self-promoting jackass would give the link to this blog that he did. Here are some things that the self-promoting jackass does not take into account.
1. Barack Obama’s central, and I mean central campaign promise was to change the way things are talked about and done in Washington. It’s not as if he hid this. He is keeping his promise, and he’d better, or he’s lost me, and he’s lost many more people who are not far-left types like myself. So many of these people complaining that Barack Obama isn’t bringing the change they expected, the change they wanted, and whispered to themselves with their fingers in their ears so they couldn’t hear Obama, was that they should switch roles with the Republicans’ reactionary base, and have their measures rammed through. I call this ‘BuzzFlash Bushism’, in honor of the editor. It is precisely what Barack Obama promised the American people he would not let happen.
2. The problem is not the Republicans. It never was the Republicans. I can’t imagine why seemingly thoughtful people believed the Republicans mattered that much, except insofar as some Democrats were chummy with them. What is it, just me, some friends of mine, my wife, and Howard Dean who realize this? Let Obama talk to the Republicans, even if they are obstructive; they’ll go to hell, but Obama will go to heaven, for giving them the chance to reject. The only thing that has been a serious impediment this entire time has been a few Democratic senators, who, one may have noticed, have power of their own, who do not answer to the president of the United States, and who happen to have Republican-like positions on matters. Of course, for eight years and especially the last two of those we were used to senators following orders from the White House, and some would like to retain that form of government, but see point (1) above.
3. There will be a healthcare bill. That no one is rushing is a good thing, related to point (1) above. Washington moves slowly, particularly when it is not being presided over by a melancholic, paranoid bully who couldn’t even get his party’s renomination because he was such an ass.
4. Revenge is a dish best served by Republicans. See point (1) above.
5. Refer to point (1) above.
PM, you doth protest too much...
"overwrought" ??!! PM, that describes your entire column.
Candidate Obama PROMISED us "CHANGE!," buthe has delivered us a Goldman-Sachs White House, STACKED with GoldmanSachs lobbyists (there's one of his MAJOR CAMPAIGN PLEDGES in the trash can), who write the bills & legislation that keep GS, Wall Street, Big Finance, and the insurance companies happy. http://a.abcnews.com/Blotter/story?id=6735898
PM, in case you didn't notice, President Bush's Treasury Secretary for the last 2 years of the Bush administration was FORMER GOLDMAN SACHS (5 year) CHAIRMAN Hank Paulson. http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1877351_1877350_1877341,00.html
Today, President Obama's TOP "economics advisers" are Lawrence Summers and Treasury Sec. Timmy Geithner.... both PROTEGES under then (Clinton) Treasury Secretary ROBERT RUBIN... a GOLDMAN SACHS (co-) CHAIRMAN (and co-COO) from 1987 to 1990.) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Rubin
Mr. Carpenter, going FROM a "GOLDMAN SACHS TREASURY department" TO a "Goldman Sachs Treasury Department" IS NOT "CHANGE" !!
Jesus, but you're
Jesus, but you're pathetic. Time was, a politician found out if he "had the votes" after energetically presenting his position and...holding a vote. Your strategy of playing dead in the face of absurd "arguments" and demographically challenged "opposition" is on its face an utter farce.
I've always held back from joining the chorus that "Buzzflash needs to dump Carpenter", because you always provide a good springboard for criticizing the corporatist DLC position. But now that you have apparently run fresh out of Obamappologistics, and revert to brainlessly asserting your position in a petulent tantrum (your screed above), I see no use for you, and my disgust for your view of politics makes me hope that Buzzflash cuts you loose soon.
Seek help and a backbone.
sigh, "the votes" is not the point.
Sir: It's not about the votes- you get the votes by taking a strong stand and rallying your forces underneath the votes so that the votes have to come through - none of which the Big O did, because ...he doesn't want to! Matt Taibbi says it all today in Rolling Stone--"How Washington is Screwing up Health Care Reform and why it may take a Revolt to Fix it: Everyone who is exasperated and knows Carpenter and the like are wrong should read this piece to see what the real problem is - no bullshit-- and then, be prepared to try to push this boulder up the hill. Lindak.reporting.
seconded, Ken...
Seconded, Ken.
Obama has had NINE MONTHS to MAKE A PERSUASIVE ARGUMENT why AMERICANS DESERVE BETTER than this "Health Care EXTORTION System," why American families DESERVE BETTER than to be TERRIFIED, TERRORIZED by the prospect of a tragic medical analysis; why Americans DESERVE BETTER than the 40% _FORTY-plus_PERCENT REJECTION RATE_ by some of California's big HMO/health DENIAL insurance companies - WE HAVE "DEATH PANELS," they are PRIVATE INSURANCE company EXECUTIVES!
SINCE Mr. Obama is NOT making those arguments, suddenly those of us who busted our chops to get him elected, have to; A.) go back and watch the video of CANDIDATE OBAMA pledging REAL health care change (which Mr. Olbermann provided on last night's show...)
and, B.) we (former) Obama supporters now have to formulate, document, and advocate the argument for REAL "Change" IN SPITE OF, in contrast to, IN OPPOSITION TO, the "Change!" candidate who is now selling us out!!
As if that wasn't bad enough, Mr. Obama's version of "CHANGE!" - the reason that MILLIONS flocked to his campaign rallies and he had those HUGE CROWDS, stretching for example, shoulder-to-shoulder, from Missouri River to OVER a 1/4 mile inland along the St. Louis waterfront - is, "I'm going to hand MORE TAXPAYER and CONSUMER MONEY - BILLIONS more dollars, via "MANDATES" - TO the very "Health DENIAL companies" who have TORMENTED consumers these past two dozen years" !!
Mr. Obama needs to ditch his Rahm Emanuel & Golddamn-Sachs "economics advisers" yesterday....these people are dictatorial, far from "democratic;" financially they are close allies with the Gramm-Leach-Bliley right-wing Republicans (of the Gramm-Leach-Bliley & "Commodity Futures Modernization" acts - both radical right-wing DEREGULATION acts favored by the likes of Dick Armey, Enron Ken Lay, Wall Street, the oil companies, and other right-wing titans of finance), and they certainly don't care for American families BESIEGED by the economic crisis, foreclosure evictions, job losses, and health-care denial.
The Right-Wing kooks and fanatics paint Obama as "a Marxist!" and a "Socialist!"... but in GIVING AWAY TRILLIONS of taxpayer dollars to the failed, bankrupt, bailed-out banksters of Wall Street & Golddamn-Sachs, there is more of a grain of truth to the Righty rabble-rousers, than there is to PM, who gives Obama a FREE PASS for all the above! (total cost to US taxpayers of "bailouts" now OVER TWENTY TRILLION US taxpayer dollars!!) -
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aZ27ITF7gaoQ
Total LOSSES to American working households - TRILLIONS MORE dollars!
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/13/business/economy/13wealth.html
Thanks to Mr. Obama's atrocious policies, it now becomes our responsibility to keep these (and dozens other such) links in our "favorites" list, so we can use 'em to remind "the corporate media," and now PM, on where Mr. Obama's TRUE priorities REALLY lie.. keeping his fat-cat banksters & Insurance extortion lords happy!
Keeping Goldman-Sachs happy is HARDLY the "CHANGE!" that Mr. Obama promised us.
Votes
With 59 sitting Democratic senators and a Democratic VP, with an even larger majority in the House,
with 70% of the voters in favor of or at least amenable to a public option "not having the votes"
is a choice the administration is making. It's time for Obama to stand up to the naysayers and say
in so many words "This is vitally important. It's a scandal that we spend more per capita, about
60% more, than any other country. For that we cover only about 85% of our population and our
outcomes are worse. We are already morally bankrupt and we will be financially bankrupt in the
future unless we take action now."
Carpenter wrote yesterday that Obama has been specific. Well, he's hearing something that many of the
rest of us are not. Was it Jonathan Alter last night on Olbermann who said that Obama had not
beeen specific?
Those of us who are angry are angry because we are disappointed and not only on our own behalfs
but on behalf of our friends, our families, our neighbors, our fellow citizens, even the right-wing
nut jobs, many of whom are of modest income and would likely benefit from good reform. They
send their kids to public schools, drive on the roads, support the troops etc, none of which is
free.
We know Obama can stand up and rally public opinion. What does he have to lose? Congress
won't say "yes" unless they're told where the battle lines are. Where is it written that Max Baucus,
Charles Grassley, Olympia Snowe, and Kent Conrad are in charge? (Is there some secret part of the
US Constitution that makes this possible?)
Colleen Clark Cambridge, MA
The Audacity of...
...Capitulation, of Betrayal, of Selling Out, of Licking the Corporate Boot, of Whoring for Dollars, of Running Away From the Fight, of Slapping Down the People Who Elected You...
Fantastic!
I hope you don't mind, but I'm going to have some bumper stickers made along these lines: "....Whoring for the Health Insurance Industry", I think. I hope they are finished by next Wednesday. Thanks.
Here's another one...
...The Audacity of "Can't".
Carpy Embraces Repetition Propaganda
"He doesn't have the votes" Carpy?
Actually, HE DOES HAVE THE VOTES IN THE HOUSE.
WITH A SIMPLE MAJORITY, HE DOES HAVE THE VOTES IN THE SENATE.
Stop being an Obama appologist, Carpenter. You have no credibility.
HE DOES HAVE THE VOTES.
It's no wonder Buzzflash made it a point today to distance themselves from your idiotic opinion:
'The health-care fiasco explained, in five little words. P.M. Carpenter Exclusively on BuzzFlash for Saturday, September 5. In which P.M. Carpenter takes a decidedly diffent position on the Healthcare Reform Controversy than the Editor of BuzzFlash, absolving Obama because the votes are allegedly not there in the Senate (although they would probably be there if the White House wanted to make the public option a 50-vote decision) and the BuzzFlash Editor thinks that the votes are not there because the White House has botched the communications and political strategy and is pro-corporate on the bill based on who has been visiting the White House. LBJ got Medicare, Civil Rights, & Voting Rights Bills passed dealing with mostly southern segregationist Democrats and Republicans. But he didn't aspire to be best liked politician in D.C.; he knew that people had to fear you as well as respect you.'
HE DOES HAVE THE VOTES.
I just wonder why Buzzflash bothers to keep you around.
HE DOES HAVE THE VOTES.
Obama does have the votes.
He does have the votes.
HE does have the votes.
He DOES have the votes.
He does HAVE the votes.
He does have THE votes.
He does have the VOTES.
He
does
have
the
votes.
He
does
have
the
votes.
He
does
have
the
votes.
setov eht evah t'nseod eH. (Speak English, this is America)
He does have the votes!
He does have the votes!!
HE DOES HAVE THE BLOODY VOTES.
But what Obama doesn't have, is the right bloody health plan:
http://blog.buzzflash.com/node/9361
Hallidamnedlujah!
Thanks Kevin.
You saved me the trouble of trying to refute all the lack of logic in Carpy's latest rant.
Bottom Line is this: If you don't have the votes on an issue this important to the American people, you don't start the game.
After you start the game. You get the votes by whatever means necessary.
If you have the will, you find the way.
If you don't, you won't.
It isn't the votes that are lacking, it's the will.
Everybody has figured that out but P.M.
He backs down every time.
He backs down every time.
He backs down every time.
He backs down every time.
He backs down every time.
I'm sick of a party that refuses to fight.
I'm sick of a party that refuses to fight.
I'm sick of a party that refuses to fight.
I'm sick of a party that refuses to fight.
So much for Hope and Change.
So much for Hope and Change.
So much for Hope and Change.
So much for Hope and Change.
I'm DONE.
I'm DONE.
I'm DONE.
I'm DONE.
Obama is too busy
If you look at who he has been listening to on health care you would see the reason why he doesn't want or need the votes in the Senate. There has been a long parade of insurance and pharma CEOs for months at the WHite House. Obama is too busy collecting corporate bribes to have time to work for "change". I hope that Obama and the Blue Dogs enjoy the money because none of them will get one cent from me or another vote.
It is time to Dump the Democrats!
WRONG! It's time to dump the Blue Dog DINO-Fascists!
We dumped the Republican Neocon-Fascists over the last two election cycles.
Next to be dumped are the Blue Dog DINO-Fascists. We will dump them in the next Democratic Primary Elections, regardless of what Rahm Emanual or Chuck Schumer say!
"You can't win elections by being Republican Light"
~Dr. Howard Dean~
Abused party
There are far too many liberals and progressives that suffer from battered wife syndrome. When you're in an abusive relationship the best thing to do is get out because the abuse will only continue if you stay.
Leaving is easy and we could start running against Democrats to win or at least make them honest again. In California it only takes 88,991 people to register for a party to get candidates on the ballot. It is probably much easier in other states.
Howard Dean is right. You can't win elections by being Republican Light. You can still be Republican Light after you win and that's what Democrats keep doing.
Leaving is WRONG!
Within the Democratic Party there are far more true Democrats than there are Blue Dog DINO-Fascists.
All it would take is one focused, concerted action to vote the traitors out in the upcoming Democratic Primaries early next year.
Had He Tried He'd Have The Votes
"Tried how?"
"With the same effort that convinced us voters to put him in the White House."
"Single payer still might have lost?"
"No matter."
"Why not?"
"In the struggle for single payer a popular movement for change would have emerged and been sustained."
"What now?"
"Same as before."
"Namely?"
"It's up to us."
LBJ
When people comment on how LBJ got things through it bears remembering how he did it. He had started out in the House in the 1930's & later went into the Senate. He knew where "all the bodies were buried" & he was owed a lot of favors. That is how he got things like Medicare & the Civil Rights act through. He called in all of those favors & did some "arm twisting". Obama doesn't have that kind of longevity. Kennedy did but he's gone now.
He doesn't have the will
He doesn't have the will
He doesn't have the will
He doesn't have the will
He doesn't have the will
He doesn't have the will.
In DC politics they can smell weakness from miles away. Sorry, Ted Kennedy, the Democratic Party may have died with you.
Filibuster
Get rid of the filibuster. It's easy. All you need is 50 votes.
Even with 50 votes, you still have lobbyists bribing Congress
Get rid of the lobbyists. It's easy. All you need is 42,000 jail cells.
But first to make room for all of those over paid pimps and destroyers of democracy, pardon all the pot smokers.
Arithmetic
People keep talking about the polling showing strong support for the public option, but this doesn't translate to enough votes in the Senate. Why? First, because the filibuster rules require 60 votes to pass anything. That's a huge requirement: you need three yes votes for every two no votes. But also, every state, regardless of population, gets two senators. Wyoming has as much representation in the Senate as California, even though the population ratio is something like 30:1. Those big, unpopulated states tend to be Republican. Is it any wonder Democrats have so much trouble getting legislation passed? The problem is built into the Senate. Scrapping the filibuster would be a good choice. It helps Republicans more than Democrats.
The Actual Problem
You've hit on the real problem. The real reason why progressives never can get anything passed, regardless of popularity. The founding fathers were garbage. They created the most undemocratic "democracy" they could. And why wouldn't they? They were off killing natives, and raping slaves in their free time (minority rights). These guys didn't give a shit about anybody but other worthless crackers. If Obama had not f'ed up the selling of this so called reform ("medicare expansion" would have been a useful term), and actually passed this public option, it would have just been a rare gaming of a broken system.
Mr. Carpenter answered, with three little points
Point 1: He never tried to secure the votes of even his own party. He was too busy making futile captitulations to Republicans.
Point 2: If he never expected to get them, he should never have made the promises he did. Better to actually try, and fail honestly.
Point 3: His numbers are tanking because he displays no commitment.
I don't have Mr. Carpenter's patience to repeat the above three points more than a dozen times in various snarky ways, so just pretend I did.
The Capitulations Were To Big Business, Not To Republicans
The corporate Lobbyists, backed by big business and the upper 1% plutocracy now rule D.C. It was a coop by legalized bribery.
It's time for a Constitutional Revolution!!!
Well....
Yeah, he capitulated to corporations, too, but it's really the same thing. Six of one, and so forth.
And we could get by without the "constitutional revolution" if we could eliminate the legalized bibery by getting corporate money out of campaign financing. But we'll need pretty much a whole new congress for that. And a whole new SCOTUS, too.
Well, what?
You just made a case for a "constitutional revolution."
But you left out the part about Blue Dog DINO-Fascists who can be included with the corporations and Republican Neocon-Fascists.
blablablawafflewafflewaffle
Its called reconciliation. If he dosnt press for it, he is a loser.
he is a loser
he is a loser
he is a loser
HE IS a loser
a corporatist loser
a"bipartisan" loser
a backstabbing loser
a lying loser
a 1 term wonder loser
is that nuanced enough?
When this new giveaway to the the big money is complete and 47 million people find out they are forced to buy insurance from the same thieves they refused to buy from before, Obama will be less popular than Bush. What a loser.
How Much Is Enough?
If Obama didn't have the votes now, he didn't have them back when he staked himself out by putting the entire reputation of his administration on the line to promote this cowardly surrender, and he should never have begun the quest if he was determined not to fight for it.
Apparently if Obama had 100 votes in the Senate and 435 votes in the House it would still not be enough. Why? Because the corporations which hold his leash aren't about to allow him to really be president. Their votes are the only ones Obama and his pirate crew in the Congress recognize. He is only in the Oval Office for window dressing, enabling the corporations to pretend to the world that the United States is still a democratic republic of the citizens instead of the fascist corporatocracy it now clearly is.
As it is, Obama has blown off the corporatist cover and revealed to the world what the government of this nation truly is. He also is making a believable prophet out of Ralph Nader, who denounced both parties as not having any significant differences between them, except maybe in their public perceptions. In the long run, these things may be the only good things he will accomplish in his term as the quickest one-term lame duck in American History.