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In Placating Hillary, Is Obama Showing Weakness Or Just Wasting His Time?

THE FIFTH COLUMNIST by P.M. Carpenter

There are rumblings throughout the commentariat -- some of it said with glee, some with objectivity, and some with genuine concern -- that Barack Obama is beginning to look a trifle weak in his dealings with Hillary Clinton. Indeed, if theirs were a common law marriage of political convenience, one might even say uxorious.

First, there was Hillary's plea for help with her debt, which, in turn, would sure help the cause of unity. OK, said Barack. Then, it was the matter of a prominent speaking role for the other man, Bill, at the convention, which, in turn, would sure help the cause of unity. OK, said Barack.

And most recently the cause of unity all came down to the issue of having Hillary's name placed in nomination. Furthermore, Hillary really wanted, needed, and demanded a floor vote.

OK, and OK, said Barack, finally -- even though a floor vote, in the opinion of some insider operatives, actually works against the ultimate goal of party unity, not to mention the party's dissemination of message. "By putting her name in nomination, you're putting people on the spot," warned one. Plus, "having a roll call [vote] … just chews into your broadcast time."

And the irony of Hillary's successful pushing, which another insider called "a bizarre strategy" on her part? "It could backfire and show that her influence is waning," said the strategist. "Chances are, she’s not going to have as many delegates vote for her on the floor as she had in the primary."

That's because we're talking mostly about practical, self-interested politicians -- those infamous superdelegates -- upon whom the magical power of symbolism is largely impotent. They just want to get on with business; and besides, "many Hillary diehards," reports the Politico, "including at least one member of the New York delegation, are reluctant to vote for Clinton after switching over to Obama." Said one: "I made my decision for Obama, and I’m not switching again."

There was, however, at least some notable pushback by the Obama camp this week, although it was discreetly aimed at an erstwhile Hillary surrogate, not directly at Hillary herself.

To wit: "The Obama campaign is denying House Ways and Means Chairman Charles B. Rangel a speaking role at this month’s Democratic National Convention -- a move those close to the powerhouse Harlem congressman view as a spiteful snub."

That may very well be, but there are some things in the old politics that the new politics cannot and never will change. The victor's slapping down of the loser's lieutenants is one of them. Next time, Charlie, pick a winner.

But back to the matter of Obama's appearance of weakness, vis-à-vis Hillary. To me, it seems he's being a bit too compromising, perhaps, or maybe too congenial, but not what one could legitimately call "weak." Rather, I would say that Obama is simply being too clever by half -- and worse, he's wasting his time.

There's no dispute that Obama is bending over backwards to placate Hillary Clinton -- but, of course, it's not really Hillary Clinton he's interested in: it is, instead, those vestigial Clinton-support groups and the scattering of Hillary's former supporters who may be foolish enough to listen to them.

But if the representatives of two of those main groups -- Just Say No Deal and People United Means Action -- who appeared Thursday on 'Hardball' are the leading lights of the much-serenaded Clinton dead-enders … well, frankly, who would want them?

Both spokespersons were tellingly incapable of providing host David Shuster with any coherent reason why, in the face of Hillary's exhortations to support Obama, they were refusing to do so. Like children, they said they just weren't going to do it and that was that.

And poor Mr. Shuster. He kept trying to make sense of their intransigence -- repeatedly exclaiming in utter exasperation, You mean you'd really prefer opening the door for McCain, even though as a Democrat you're far closer ideologically to Obama? -- but to no avail. These political toddlers were dug in, case closed, reason out, show over. And it was clear why: Their candidate had lost and these folks are nothing more than determined, world-class pouters.

The 'Hardball' segment was, however, profitable for the socio-politically interested: I had not realized that there are adults on the (rumored) more mature left who suffer from such severe, reactionary cases of emotional sclerosis.

The only other clear picture that emerged from the two 'Hardball' guests was that of prissy, chronically disgruntled and intellectually muddled malcontents who are, as far as Obama's campaign should be concerned, better left unsolicited and ignored.

Chasing their votes isn't a sign of weakness; it's just a waste of time.

Please respond to P.M.'s commentary by leaving comments below and sharing them with the BuzzFlash community. For personal questions or comments you can contact him at fifthcolumnistmail@gmail.com

THE FIFTH COLUMNIST by P.M. Carpenter


give it a REST on BOTH SIDES

hillary came close... VERY close... it is not so big a deal to share the glory and the podium... she did a LOT of good... exposed weaknesses in the OBAMA camp, hopefully taught him to FIGHT tough she did lose... WILL lose... is NOT the candidate... but there should be no in-fighting (as the GOP would pray for), and allowing someone who OBVIOUSLY was the first choice of SO MANY DEMOCRATS to speak and participate obama was NOT my first choice... neither was hillary... we had NINE candidates.... 8 lost... 1 very close THE SILVER MEDALIST doesn't get to stand on the TOP TIER, but there is no DISHONOR is sharing the victors table HILLARY is not leaving politics... and in many areas her ideas and attitude are good and strong... we should be WISE about cutting off our nose to spite our face THE REPUBLICANS HAVE AN APPROACH.... they win FIRST then divide the spoils IF OBAMA WINS... the Hillary supporters who help him, will ALSO have a place at the TABLE

Obama is just another cowardly Democrat

Obama is just another cowardly Democrat, as proven by his pandering to homophobic bigots at Warren's Jesus Hatefest.

We Have To Elect A President Who'll Dismantle Empire-USA

Otherwise? The abyss.

One must assume

The Clintons have a picture of Obama in bed with Pat Robertson. There can be no other explanation for his fawning behavior.

Yep - "One must assume" ....

... if "one" has an IQ in single digits.

Blackmail?

Why is Obama being congenial to this group? Look at these pictures, there are no more than twenty people at this Puma Conference. http://sensico.wordpress.com/2008/08/15/hundreds-show-up-2-the-puma-conference-pictures/ Their backers must have lots of pull and money. Will Hillary go to McCain when she loses even more delegates after the vote, maybe as his VP? She's got something up her pant suit.

End of Clintons

Obama has outfoxed them, and their pyrrhic victory will finish the Clintonista's power in the Democratic Party for good.

Sometimes just letting them be themselves is all that's necessary to defeat such pigheaded people.

BTW, here is great campaign picture for Barack--> http://starbulletin.com/2008/08/14/news/artobama8.jpg

It's nice ...

... to dream.

Invitation to Hillary's supporters

If you can't stand the thought of voting for Obama, don't automatically run to the spawn of Satan (Republicans). There are other progressive candidates running. Look at Cynthia McKinney (Green) and Ralph Nader (Independent). Both campaigns will respect and honor your support.

Dog and Pony show...

It would appear that some Hillary supporters would press charges for assault, after they have beat their husbands half to death with a baseball bat, claiming he started it!..."snapped"... I don't trust the Clintons or their supporters....I don't think I trust any politician..they all lie for a living...but I'll still take any Democrat over any Republican

Wastime time?

Obam is NOT wasting time. We are! Run Ralph. Run!

Yes Nader. Or McKinney.

No decent person will vote for a Dim fascist or a Repug fascist.

Until we get a fair voting system, the non-fascist parties should operate their own primary so that decent people can unite behind a decent candidate rather than a K-street appeaser like McSame or O'Same.

Go Ralph or Cynthia! Go Cindy!

Yes, they're weak

O'Same and McSame are weak for caving in to Wall Street and K Street and the three-yacht-CEO set.

A little graciousness towards Billary is neither here nor there - just a distraction pushed by Buzzflash's increasingly regressive columnists (see Ann Davidow for another example).

Obama's weakness

You know, it behooves a real leader to be magnaminous in victory. Obama has nothing to lose here. For Obama, the primaries are over. He has won. But, it seems to me that the primary passions among the "commentariat" are still brewing and whirling around looking for "weaknesses" and "strengths". The competition is OVER people. Obama is in no way, shape, or form being "weak" by rising above these, now, irrelevant power tactics and all the slights that go with them. Could people possibily entertain the idea that Obama IS the real thing? He IS a real leader? He HAS the capacity to think about, and frame, and act on the BIG picture? He is a living, real, idealistic man. NOT an idealogue, an idealist. What if he is basing his decisions, and many of his decisions, from an entirely different place than trying to figure out how to protect himself from looking weak to those down in the trenches fist-fighting.

P.M. , I'lI take KKK Street for a thousand :-]

Those poor fat blubbering soccer (and tennis) moms need them their big cars and Walmart's for all the sh**it they buy (and peddle)as they rebuild their second homes (and woodsheds) in Florida (or Gaza) while their neighbors (and their country) suffer from the works of big fat blubbering males who have exhausted the country's resources (and the local hooker supply) so taxing the world (while untaxing their flies) in trying to appease all their whiny do nothing loser (war monger/profiteers) friends and families who in reality want nothing more than to all leave this country (because there's nothing left to want) and dance to their own idolatrous image (tune), say like in the Marianna Island sweatshops/camps or the steamy dark halls of Bangkok (or Guantanamo). Because their previous haunts (Congress and the White House) have been discovered (infected), and few enough remain to believe that sacrificing their children (because that's a all they have left) is worth the kind of freedoms they offer: (Oppressive governance, Judge Bean Justice, let them eat cheese food benefits, and a redacted Constitution.)

America! Such a nice place to visit, but...

To choose not to learn about what you don't know is to choose to be more stupid than you were.

P.M. Carpenter

There is not going to be any 'compromise' with the PUMA'S. The DNC has chosen it's candidate. The Democratic party may be really damaged by this. I will not support Obama because I do not feel he has the integrity and experience and the 'balls' to lead this country. Why did he lie about his name??? (Barry Soretoes) Not crazy about Hillary, but, her experience would have been an asset. The PUMA movement is an alternative that seems right, at this time. I don't know how I will vote in Nov, but never for the empty-suit liar. NObama-KEEP THE CHANGE (Bitter old feminist life-long democrat from New York State)

To spice rose

When I met my husband he called himself Dave . Now he calls himself David-he gave up the nickname. Barry was Barack's nickname. Why do you say he is lying? Secondly Obama is his father's last name. Soretoes was his stepdad's last name. My son's last name is Hartman, his stepfather had the last name of Digby, yet my son always had the last name of Hartman. You really need to inform yourself of 'FACTS' instead of posting trash. Or do you perhaps know the truth and delight in posting lies? If the second is true, then SHAME ON YOU.

Obama dosn't owe Hilary anything...

Least of all giving in to her everytime she throws a hissy-fit because she didn't get the nod from the primaries. She is acting like a petulant child who wants what isn't hers. Obama needs to concentrate on what is BEST for AMERICA, not on placating Ms C. Hil' needs to accept the fact that she is NOT the presidential candidate and go back to the Senate.

Who needs who?

When I read comments like "well, frankly, who would want them?" when referring to die hard Clinton supporters, I am just flabberghasted. Look at the gender gap in the vote. Women are the backbone of the modern Democratic party. Obama supports just offer contempt, disrespect, and disappointment for women. I know that people will just think I'm out to lunch and closed minded about Obama, but really think that unless his campaign takes a hard look at Clinton supporters and stops trying to score political points and starts getting at the root causes about why we just can't let bygones be bygones about this one, he will lose this election in Novermber. From the the time she was a teenager, Hillary Clinton did all the hard work for the party and put up with holding off on her career and standing up through personal attacks which would have destroyed any male politician. After she did everything she was supposed to do, the party found a younger, cuter man to run for the positions which was supposed to be the culmination of her work. Every woman from middle school age on up has been in this same situation more times than they can count, and articles like this are just making it worse. I will repeat myself. Obama is going to lose. Because you are driving away the core of the party. No one is going to host the fundraisers or stuff the envelopes or make the calls or do the work if it isn't women. Those cute college students who were so vocal for Obama back in the spring aren't going to show up to do any of those things for another ten or fifteen years. It doesn't matter if McCain is the worst thing since George W. Bush. All he has to do is keep his mouth shut and not say things like "Women? Who needs 'em?"

Who Needs Who?

I think you might be surprised at the number of "mature" women who support Barack Obama. After all, Hillary wooed the female vote and she lost. Not only that, but her "below the belt" campaign tactics nixed her chances for the veep spot, especially that remark about McCain being more qualified to lead. (And we all know that's a load of...). So, this female that can remember the Eisenhower years is casting a vote this November for Barack Obama. The alternative is unthinkable.

Who needs who? Who needs YOU?

politicaljunkie When I read comments from you diehard Hillary supporters, I could just spit nails. I happen to be a woman in my late 60s who remembers well how hard women had to fight to be equal. I am also a Black woman (retired RN)who not only had to fight for women's rights but HUMAN rights as well. And Hillary is no more a champion for Black women than George Bush is a champion for upholding the US Constitution. Hillary has spent her adult life fighting for whatever gets her what only she wants. She is a self-serving, shrewd shrew who will do anything to achieve her personal goals. Yes, you are right. Women are the backbone of the Democratic Party. But most of us know that Obama represents the people of the United States--men, women, poor, rich, Black, White, Red, Brown. You diehard Hillary supporters have problems admitting defeat and would never vote for Obama, even if he was Black Jesus. You are just stuck in Hillary's whining disbelief that this Black man came out of nowhere and defeated a supposedly inevitable winner! I used to work with women who seemed to doubt if any Black could be as educated or as capable as they. Well, now, we will see. But, I will tell you this: Obama IS going to win. With or without you, he (I repeat) is going to win. Catharsis? You folks have had time for cathasis ever since Hillary (finally) gave her concession speech in June. If you still haven't gotten defeat out of your system, maybe you need a stronger laxative???

"Spit nails"? No doubt

And you don't think Obama needs the "diehard Hillary supporters? Have you seen the latest two polls? Gallup has him up by one point. Oooooh, look! Rasmussen also!

And this is a year in which ANY Dem should be easily beating McCain. Maybe you should stop whining about Hillary and focus on getting Obama elected.

BTW - The "Black Jesus" thing was pretty funny ........... were you going for irony?

Spit nails

Thanks for the advice, Yman, but, FYI I am already working to support Obama. In case you've lost sight of what the original question was, here it is: "In placating Hillary, is Obama showing weakness..." So, responding to a question directly referring to Hillary, does constitute whining. By the way, you quote the Rasmussen and Gallup polls, and you declare that any Dem should be easily beating McCain. I beg to differ. Polls all result in response to strategically placed questions. My question is this: If McCain is so much more experienced than Obama, and has been in politics so much longer than Obama, has such a noble military record and Obama has none, and is such a maverick, why isn't McCain's numbers way out there beyond Obama's? As for the Black Jesus thing, irony, maybe...you figure it out. politicaljunkie

Keep spitting

"So responding to a question directly refering to Hillary, does constitute whining."

Huh?

"Polls all result in response to strategically placed questions".

Again, "What"? Are you suggesting the polls are biased or the results are inaccurate based on the questions? Do you mean methodology or poll model? Whatever you mean, it's pretty easy to criticize polls, but until Nov. 5, they're the only way to tell how each candidate is doing.

"Why isn't (sic) McCain's numbers way out there beyond Obama's?" Dunno - Maybe because: McCain's a horrible candidate, poor speaker, most people disagree with him on policy positions, he doesn't have the conservative base entirely behind him, etc. Take your pick. Regardless, given the generic party preference numbers, Bush's approval numbers, an economy in the tank, and big dissatisfaction with the Iraq War, Obama should be up by double digits. He's up by one point, and you say (twice, without any qualification) that he "IS going to win".

You think a candidate up by one point doesn't need the "diehard" proponents of his primary opponent? Please .......

He needs every vote he can get.

Keep spitting...

Please excuse the typo. Meant to say "does not constitute whining". Polls are not always accurate due to various reasons; be it methodology or poll model. Polls in August do not guarantee what results will turn out to be in November. Even exit polls taken during the actual voting in New Hampshire predicted that Obama had won that state. Remember that? So, none of us really knows what the future will bring. I agree that Obama needs every vote he can get, just as any candidate will need. However, much as YOU rely on polls to dictate your predictions and opinions, I repeat, Obama does not need that small faction of diehard Hillary voters who claim they are Dems, but either will vote for McCain or not vote at all. The diehard Hillaryites will be overridden by the newer, younger voters who never before went to the polls and by the reasonable Dems who know not to vote for McCain and will vote for Obama. Obama is also mobilizing many reformed Repubs and undecideds. If you really must rely on only polls to see how candidates are doing now, why only two? There are many other polls that say just the opposite. What about the Quinnipiac Poll, or the cable channel polls or USA and other periodical polls out there. All these polls change either daily or weekly, etc. However, there are other ways to see what the candidates are doing. Watch opposing views no matter how much you may disagree with them. There are many cable channels filled with many talking heads; the internet; blogs such as this; books and magazines, and on and on and on. But just because one or two polls puts Obama up by one point in the middle of August does not translate into Obama NEEDING those few (un)democrats who will vote for McCain or no one. politicaljunkie

Of course polls have limitations ...

... and don't guarantee results, otherwise they would be called election "results," not "polls". It's a straw argument, and not one that I made. That being said, poll data is a lot better than just guessing, or making unsupported predictions ("My guy WILL win!" Why? "Because I believe it."). Oh ......... and as far as the reason for choosing those two polls? Because: 1) they have the largest sample, and 2) they're the most up-to-date (although they have since been updated to indicate an Obama 2 pt. lead in one, and a tie in the other).

"Obama does not need that small faction of diehard Hillary voters who claim they are Dems, but either will vote for McCain or not vote at all." By your own definition, he won't get them, so they're moot. But was he does need is that group of Hillary supporters who can be persuaded to vote for him, but hasn't yet been convinced. Think it's just a "small faction"? Based on what? ........ belief? There haven't been any polls in the past few weeks, but the last polls show that the number of Clinton supporters who say they will vote for Obama is 54%. This is actually a 6 point drop from the month before (i.e. he didn't gain support from this group, he lost it). And articles like PM's and posts on so-called "prog-blogs" that continue to trash Hillary Clinton and/or her supporters aren't helping.

But, hey ....... if it makes the Clinton-haters feel better, they should keep it up. Just remember on Nov. 6 ............ "he didn't need them".

AS AN OLDER WOMAN, WHO HAS NEVER SUPPORTED BILLARY,

I have been an Obama supporter from the start! I believe that the Billary people are absolutely NUTS!!! In addition, I believe this so-called "movement" is kept "active" by RePUKES, to make it look as though it is larger than the tiny little group that it is!!! Barack Obama doesn't need these trouble-makers, and I am sorry that he even gave Billary time at HIS Convention. I voted for Bill twice, but I am finished with these pathologically narcissistic people, who care NOTHING for their country and EVERYTHING only for themselves!!!!!

"NUTS"?

From someone who wanted Lou Dobbs to be President.

We'll defer to your expertise.

"hard work for the party"?

Wasn't Hillary a Goldwater Girl?

She was 17

Conservatives, libertarians, and fundamentalists always have an appeal to the immature.

Placating Hillary

Obama would not be in this position if he had not run such a dirty, race-baiting, sexist, hate filled primary campaign. When the DNC and Obama did not speak out against the smear campaign against Hillary Clinton, it was a slap in the face to all women. Obama supporters were the worst I have ever seen. Calling Hillary vile, vicious, degrading name because she dared to run against their candidate. There were calls for violence against her. Also Keith Olberman called for her murder. The Obama campaign admitted to sending talking points to Olberman. The DNC and Obama could have stopped this by speaking out and asking for respect for all women. The kind of hate that was directed at Hillary was unacceptable. I didn't realize when he talked about change and a new kind of politics that he meant it would get uglier, meaner and more degrading to women. I always told people Democrats stand up for women and women's rights. That they believe in counting all votes. I live in a very republican area and was told all politicans are the same. I defended the democrats. Now the republicans are coming back and saying "what were you saying about democrats sticking up for women?" "How can you say democrats believe in counting all votes, what's this with the democrats taking votes from Hillary and giving to Obama?" The democrats have become the republicans. Obama doesn't have to placate Hillary. He needs to apologize to the Country, Democrats and Hillary Clinton and learn to treat women with respect.

What Slurs?

I do not recall Obama doing anything in his campaign to denigrate women. Indeed, he appears to be a family man and his wife looks happy, his children look happy. He doesn't owe anyone an apology. He just happens to be a gifted speaker with a deep understanding of the issues we all face. Barack Obama will be our next President.

Complete Rubbish!

Sorry, but Obama did nothing to disrespect women. That is just fantasy. I came into this race with immense respect for Hillary, and left it with nothing but disgust for the Clintons who, as usual, put their own self interests above those of the rest of us. Hillary ran a campaign that looked so similar to the G.W. Bush campaigns that I'm convinced Rove was helping her out. As she floudered, grasping for a way to fight Obama, she hurt the party. If I lived in New York, I'd vote against her given the chance. Obama ran an honest race against Hillary, and as political races go, I'd say he treated her with kid gloves while she bashed him over the head with a club and did everything she could tactfully do to convince us that a Black guy can't ever get elected. Bull! Even if true, I'd just as soon give it a shot. I'm a woman, by the way, and if I feel disrespected it is by Hillary and her supporters who seem to assume that only Hillary can lead women. I would ask you to see both sides; Hillary supporters were just as nasty to Obama as his were to her.

Right on, jcarv

politicaljunkie You are so right, Jcarv. I couldn't have said it better. I also initially was wild about Hillary. I live in the same state and city where Bill, Bill's mother--who was a nurse just as I am, and Hillary made their home. I liked them both a lot. But, as the campaign progressed and Hillary started touting John McCain over Obama, I lost all respect for her. She seemed to forget that she represented the Democratic Party and decided it was all about HER!

Sheeesh....

"Obama would not be in this position if he had not run such a dirty, race-baiting, sexist, hate filled primary campaign." Whoa.....how did I miss all that?

How you missed all that

Sheep are not aware of what is going on around them.

Sheep Are Not Aware...

...and neither are ostriches.

Neither are ...

... old bats.