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Hillary's "Pugnaciousness": It's Down to That and Nothing More

THE FIFTH COLUMNIST by P.M. Carpenter

In its straight reporting, not its editorial opinion, the New York Times branded Hillary's latest pitch "one of the most pugnacious political messages of her campaign."

Right now more people have voted for me than have voted for my opponent. More people have voted for me than for anybody ever running for president before. So we have a very close contest for votes, for delegates, and this is nowhere near over. None of us is going to have the number of delegates we’re going to need to get to the nomination, although I understand my opponent and his supporters are going to claim that. The fact is we have to include Michigan and Florida -- we cannot claim that we have a nominee based on 48 states, particularly two states that are so important for us to win in the fall.

Misleading math, a false assessment, an underhanded jab, a deceptive reframing of party rules. And to top it all off, This is nowhere near over -- after having repeatedly promised that this is, at long last, very nearly over. 

Pugnacious indeed, if not downright obnoxious.

One assumes that that latter statement will soon migrate to the hard news section as well, because, after all, obnoxious is precisely, objectively what Hillary's latest pitch is. In the absence of even the slimmest hope of prevailing at the end of this long and fractious road, the New York senator persists in stirring resentments and dividing the nominee's party.

By now, the nominee just yawns, while dancing ever so delicately on the heads of ever-changing pins.

A week ago Obama, in the words of his campaign manager, was offering that "On May 20, we’re going to declare victory." In his own words: "If at that point we have the majority of pledged delegates, which is possible, then I think we can make a pretty strong claim that we’ve got the most runs and it’s the ninth inning and we’ve won."

Pugnacious? Obnoxious? No, a matter -- a statement -- of mathematical fact.

Now, however, wary of offending perhaps the sorest losers in the history of primary campaigns, Sen. Obama, as The Politico reports, "will not declare victory in the Democratic nomination fight Tuesday in the event he wins enough pledged delegates to claim a majority" -- that final word looping synonymously back to "victory." 

The Politico put it a trifle more diplomatically: that Obama is "concerned about appearing presumptuous or antagonistic towards Hillary Rodham Clinton."

You gotta love it. "Presumptuous" is the victor matter of factly declaring victory. Non-presumptuous was Hillary Clinton offering the vice-presidential slot to Obama a couple months or so ago, when it was thunderingly clear that Obama would be the victor and party unity could have begun, right then, before it was too late.

Yet more evidence of seemingly acceptable double standards -- for one side only -- abounds: "The conscious decision not to declare victory is a revealing measure of the sensitivity surrounding overtures that appear to disrespect Clinton and her supporters."

Sure, that's just a political game, the rules of which Obama must follow. But others are free to be more honest about it. And the blunt honesty is this: If Hillary's supporters ever wish to recall what true "disrespect" is, they can start by recalling their candidate's specific elimination of Obama as a competent commander in chief -- an abominable, politically dishonorable stunt never pulled in a primary campaign before -- or their candidate's repeated and general elevation of Republican John McCain and disqualification of fellow Democrat Barack Obama.

The greatest disrespect, however, has been that shown by Hillary to her own base, who, as logic would have it, would fare far better under any presidential administration absent a preceding "R." The Washington Post -- again, in straight reporting, not editorial judgment -- assesses it this way:

The campaigns have sought to balance tactics against tact, so that the rift between the two Democrats -- and their backers -- doesn't grow so wide that the winner can't pull the party back together.... But the Obama-Clinton fight has gone on so long and the ill will has become so intense that even if the candidates can heal the party, as both have vowed to do, they will have to spend critical campaign time dealing with those wounds rather than taking on McCain.

In other words, the damage is already done, critical time and more to come are already lost, and John McCain is already the happy recipient of an unnecessarily long and quite free ride.

And to whose benefit? Hillary's supporters? Pshaw. Hillary knows better than that. And after today's anguished pointlessness, we'll be treated to 'round-the-clock coverage of a pointless Rules Committee meeting on May 31st, and then on to more self-indulgent but equally pointless primary days. After that, who knows? For as Hillary has pledged, this pointlessness is nowhere near over.

Please respond to P.M.'s commentary by leaving comments below and sharing them with the BuzzFlash community. For personal questions or comments you can contact him at fifthcolumnistmail@gmail.com

THE FIFTH COLUMNIST by P.M. Carpenter


Your claim to be unbiased is false

I see that you have raised less than 10% of your fundraising goal of $50,000 and the month is more than two-thirds over. I saw last month that you had to extend your appeal far into the next month. Did you ever reach your goal?

One reason for this is that you have become a partisan political site rather than the news site you once were. I used to buy a premium every couple of months -- and I am poor and on a fixed income. Your site was once my homepage -- now I hardly ever read it.

Why is that, you ask? It is because you have become ObamaFlash and HillaryBash instead of the once reliable progressive news cache you once were. I know that I am not the only one who has given up on you since you hired P.M. Carpenter to trash Hillary every day. It is very sad how you have sold out to Karl Rove's wet dream of turning the Democrats and progressives against one another.

Remember when you are blaming Hillary Clinton for the destruction of the Democrats and the loss to McCain in November that it was you who did it -- with your smug prognostications and ignorant shilling for Obama without knowing or caring anything about him. You should change your name to EchoFlash or even RoveFlash . . . it fits you much better.

Here's an idea.

If you don't want Karl Rove's "wet dream" to become reality, why don't you simply vote for the Democratic nominee for President, Barack Obama? If you continue to stamp your foot and blame Buzzflash for Mrs. Bill Clinton's failure, Mr. Rove will think of you and smirk.

Why?

Why is it so hard for Clinton supporters to understand that she will not be the nominee? If anyone says anything in support of Obama, it is a slam against Clinton. SHE WILL NOT BE THE NOMINEE. My first two choices were eliminated in the primaries. I have been able to move on and support the Democratic nominee. Why can't you?

Why?

I am an Obama supporter. I did not use foul language. Why was I edited on BuzzFlash? MSM intervention?

Hey Anita, Greetings......

In your self-imposed hiatus, you have missed the following themes by your side of Hillary supporters (as told from OUR viewpoint):

I WILL NEVER VOTE FOR HILLARY. I think the supporters of Hillary, are the BANE of the Democratic Party. I think they are rude, foul, obnoxious and unfair to Obama. They are so smug in their assessment of this Primary. But I tell you what: I WILL HAVE MY REVENGE IN NOVEMBER! This race is NOT over!! I WILL VOTE FOR JOHN McCAIN!

They all so are ARROGANT! They have accused Obama of being a sexist; of playing the gender card. I HATE THEM ALL. They have destroyed the party. The crazy, moderate, DLC centrists have turned the party into something else. It is NOT the party I was once so proud of.

The Hillary-bots are disgusting! But you just wait and see, in November, when I vote for McCain--we'll see who has the last laugh! You can gloat all you want! i will not support someone who has STOLEN the campaign from Obama. Obama has the MOST popular votes! Obama has the most voters from Michigan and Florida. Obama has the most votes of any candidate --IN HISTORY! Obama has the most media support! Obama has the most states, if you count the state of anxiety, the state of depression, the state of debt, the state of....

They can't win--you'll see. Middle-class, hard-working BLACK Americans will have their day! In Mississippi, in Georgia, In S. Carolina, in N. Carolina--we'll show THEM--we're not the stupid, hick, un-educated, hayseeds they think we are. How dare them to look down on us because WE choose the BLACK MAN. Its about HERITAGE!

They can come to this stupid post EVERYDAY and read the lies of P.M.---who has NEVER BEEN FAIR to Obama. He has RAILED against OBAMA---from DAY 1. Thats why I refuse to contribute ANYMORE to the Hillary campaign..or BF. If this once "Liberal" site won't respect him---I'm withdrawing MY money from here---(and I WILL NEVER GIVE ANOTHER DIME TO BUZZFLASH), However, I will come back here EVERYDAY, and I promise I will whine incessantly, EVERY chance I get; if they don't see it my way---AND BACK OBAMA! WE WILL NEVER GIVE UP! THATS HOW MUCH I HATE THE HILLARY-BOTS.

I have REAL cites which I'm going to post---THEN YOU'LL SEE--THAT OBAMA never STOLE ANY DELEGATES; MICHELLE NEVER said that Ferraro won New York, too! MICHELLE HAS NEVER SAID ANYTHING SEXIST ABOUT HILLARY. OUR campaign NEVER said Hillary was weak. Obama never said that the girls were "ganging up" on him. Obama NEVER said Hillary couldn't win the "BLACK" States or Black people! ITS JUST ALL SO UNFAIR! AND I HATE THEM! But, I believe in Obama! YES, HE WILL!! YES, HE WILL!!, YES, HE WILL!!

O.K., Anita, Welcome back, and I hope the above public service announcement brought to you courtesy of radio station KDEM, has brought you up to-date. Now you are as current as the rest of us! Happy?

BTW: THERE WILL BE A QUIZ TOMORROW ON THE ABOVE MATERIAL!

Not so.

I'm really fed up with the media, and Mrs. Bill Clinton's supporters, talking about the Obama-Clinton fight. There has only been Hillary throwing crap at Obama theater

Hillary, Hillary, Hillary

Wow. Someone needs to shut her down. This is not even funny or amusing anymore. My opinion of her has changed so drastically, I cannot even find the words. I am sick of her major denial and constant undermining of Obama and/or not even acknowledging him as a person, let alone the winner of the Democratic presidential nomination. This is becoming a freak show. CAN THE SUPERDELEGATES PLEASE COME FORTH AND SHUT THIS WOMAN DOWN? (Once again we see Nancy Pelosi sit by and do nothing.) I am sure the Republicans couldn't have asked for a better scenario. The Democratic party is becoming so fractured from all of this and we have so much to do to make sure we have a Democrat in the White House to heal this country. !!!

Give it two weeks....

...We Democrats (Obama and some Hillary supporters alike) are tasked with accommodating her towering ego until she leaves on her terms. Hillary’s insistence on not “offending” her or her oddly tallied 17 million voters reminds me of the cowboy outlaws slowly walking out of the saloon with their backs to the swinging doors and their hands gripping their low slung 6-shooters, while the sheriff allows them to leave with some respect intact (as long as they leave Dodge!). So hold on ‘pardner’, their horses are getting saddled-up.

Hillary will suffer the most damage.

As I have said in this forum on several occasions, Hillary Clinton has been running as John McCain's surrogate for the past two months. Although she has recently toned down the negative rhetoric towards Obama, the mere fact that she continues to delay his ultimate victory speaks volumes as to her actual purpose. But there may be a secondary purpose in her continuing on her quixotic journey: As long as she remains in the race, she can continue to raise funds that can be used to pay off her campaign's reported $20 million debt. The question is whether she is spending more than she is currently bringing in. To do so would be self-defeating. In the long run, Hillary Clinton's standing in the Democratic Party will be irreparably damaged by her blatant efforts to harm the party's ultimate nominee. It was inexcusable for her to promote John McCain over Barack Obama. For many Democrats, this was a transgression that they will not soon forget or forgive. Hillary's supporters may be PO'd at Obama, but that is merely because he is beating their candidate. At no time did he campaign unfairly or give aid to a Republican opponent.

All bark

Shrillary is acting like the good pit-bull fighting dog owned by Mellon-Scaife and trained by Karl Rove that she is. Her job is to goad Obama into some kind of retaliation for her obnoxious behavior so he will look bad. He's not biting though. I suspect a large number of Clinton "supporters" are actually Rove-bots as well. We certainly see them pooping all over the progressive websites trying to divide and distract. Meanwhile, Obama is winning the nomination by playing BY THE RULES. Too bad, but somebody has to lose.

Thank You, Hillary!

Thank You, Hillary, for finishing the job your husband Bill started: destroying the Democratic Party. Perhaps now we can see a new Party rise in it's place, one that actually represents the people!

A long, slow demise...

As Hillary supporters seem to get more and more angry. Anger directed towards Obama supporters. "I hope you like getting used to President McCain" - That one really gets my goat. It's a threat. It's a threat that if they can't have their candidate(lost fair and square)then they'll screw us out of ours. Really sickening stuff. Even to think that us 'commenters' make up a significant amount of voters is just silly. We are basically losers, venting our frustrations, dreams and hopes anonymously on the internet. Who the hell are we? Not the majority. Hell, if Kentucky and WV are any indication, the majority prolly can't even figure out the internet unless it's to score more oxy.(Zing) Ferraro, Clinton, Carville, blah, blah, blah. I'll be so glad when it's over. If Hillary supporters succeed in crippling Obama's chances at presidency, well I'll just freakin' cry. For my kids mostly. They don't deserve McCain, even if we as a nation do. Hasn't anybody figured out that Obama can and will defeat Clinton in 2012 too?

One small error.

Those supporters of Mrs. Bill Clinton who will vote for McCain are not just screwing us out of our candidate. They are screwing themselves and all of the world into another right-wing lunatic running things. One has to be a special kind of stupid to make that happen.

She could have made a good vintage...

...but Hillary has chosen to wither on the vine.

A few thoughts and a (gulp!) plea to Hillary supporters

Every time I begin to feel magnanimous in victory, Hillary does or says something to piss me off. I truly wish we Dems could come together and focus on McCain but that day cannot happen until Hillary Clinton says it can, if then. There is a part of me that is in awe of her perseverance, her tenacity, her stick-to-it-tiveness, her fighting spirit (in fact, last week I was even entertaining the possibility that she might be on the ticket as veep and the thought wasn't making me throw up in my mouth), but those wonderful qualities are almost completely counter-balenced by her other qualities and baggage (mentioned by myself and others many times over on this site). At this point it's just overkill and serves no real purpose that I can see to dwell on Hillary's "pugnaciousness." Who knows what her agenda is at this point. Is it just as martyred loser? Legacy for for future women running for president? Who knows. But she is playing out the string until the very end, perhaps because she desperately wants to claim a win in the popular vote (as she has already been doing)--even if it means adding Michigan and Florida and discounting caucas states. Anyway, more power to her I suppose. But her thinly veiled threat and warning to Obama that he better damn-well not declare victory tonight or her supporters might be "disrespected," is just one threat and disrespect to Obama too many for him to even consider her for a slot on the ticket now. Not that he was considering her or that she would even want it. But surely she must see that her denial of the inevitable is osmotically seeping into the pores of her most hardcore supporters, to the point where that genie may not be able to be put back into the bottle. IT IS HURTING THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY. Many of her supporters, as we all know, are vowing to support McCain. Even (and especially) women, knowing full-well that we are one Supreme Court justice away from having Roe V Wade overturned. I do hope cooler heads prevail in the end, because consider what TWO new conservative justices will do to the ideological bent of this court. It will have an effect long after Hill and Barack have fulfiiled their political promise. Decades, in fact. Is it worth that? And I'm speaking directly to Hillary supporters now--Is it worth that just so you can hurt Obama and his supporters? You may feel the pain of coming in 2nd right now, but I promise you, it will be NOTHING compared to to the pain a John McCain Supreme Court will visit upon you and the rest of us. Please consider that in the coming days as we formally decide our nominee. It is true, we can't win in November without you. But if we lose, I suggest we all throw away our calendars and begin using the ancient Mayan one.

Of the "I'm gonna vote

Of the "I'm gonna vote McCain!" threat-makers, I say don't fall into the trap of thinking they are as important as they think they are. Few will carry out the threat, and those that do have not earned the attention. The damage to the Democratic Party is minor, especially compared to the massive damage that would have been done to the party had a Clinton again won the presidency.

PM - Absolutely. Thank You for Saying What Needed to be Said

To all who have implied or outright said "If I can't vote for Hillary, I'll vote for McCain!!!" - all The Clintons are doing now is making sure Obama loses the election. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if, after they're balked at the Democratic Conventions, they both Pull a Lieberman and run as "Independent Quislings" or whatever he's calling himself these days.

Look - up to and until I saw how Obama's campaign style was vastly less sleazy than Clinton's, I probably would have held my nose and voted for her if she were the Dem nominee, b/c I didn't think it could be any different. But if nothing else, Barack Obama has shown that yes, you CAN sometimes win without mudslinging - b/c whenever he's gone after Clinton it's been on the issues, when he's zinged her personally it's been with wit rather than rabid hatred, and he's never forgotten that the REAL opponent is not a fellow Democrat standing in the way of His Destiny - but the civil liberties-hating, warmongering Republicans.

So - am I just supporting Barack Obama b/c he's got good manners? Maybe I am - b/c after a quarter century of vicious, vindictive, hate-filled coarsened namecalling passing itself off as "free speech" and "debate" by Our Leaders and those who support them, maybe it's past time for a Head of the Free World who doesn't behave like a spoiled brat in mid-tantrum at all times. Maybe it's time Our President set a POSITIVE example in politics for a change - and maybe, just maybe, enough Americans are sick enough of the rabid infighting tearing our country apart to see what else he's got.

Here We Go Again.....

The graphic embodiment of what is PRECISELY wrong with a never-ending, long, drawn-out affair. And to accomplish what? Nothing more than Hillary staving off the utter certainty of having to face the odious reality of her return to the "commoness" of commonality!

I'm sorry. I am NOT one of those who adhere to the theory that Hillary should "stay in the race--as long as she likes..." its lunacy. THAT is a "bill" of egotism WE ALL will have to finance. I have the right to squander my children's savings funds on outlandish schemes of mine; I have the right to run naked and screaming down the street banging on my neighbors doors; I have the right to be the last fool to leave a bar at night; however, that does not necessarily mean it's a WISE thing to do!

Yes, Hillary is pugnacious---mentally unhinged people witnessing their life-long, sole ambition evaporating away like morning fog--tend to want to get desperately violent....its all she's ever been experienced at doing. This is nothing more than the self-centered lunacies of a unstable personality supported by the devious wiles of a self-serving media. For example, many in the media feel its PERFECTLY O.K. for political surrogates to go after Michelle Obama; yet, it was these same bias, partisan fools who, only a month ago, were vociferously arguing for "protecting" the rights of Chelsea Clinton as being "off-limits" from any public criticisms----as it has become increasingly more important to the "powers" behind the media to support her, the more the media has favored Hillary in their coverage---for many months now.....so, WE take note of this, and argue it infinitum---while the media gleefully rakes in the ducats.

To wit, the media will explain: Hillary is out of cash; Hillary is mathematically out of the race; Hillary is losing support among delegates; Hillary is fracturing the party; HOW WILL OBAMA DEAL WITH THIS? You see the madness involved here? It is Obama's burden (to explain) and carry the RESPONSIBILITY for Hillary's juvenile antics.....AMAZING!

As long as she keeps serving up her visage on the TV screen as some symbolic representation of "toughness", and "tenacity", and "perseverance", WE will NEVER be able to get beyond US out-lining her loathsome behavior, and her supporters will NEVER move beyond lamenting how awful we are for doing so.......

And therein lies the rub.....it all equates to us NOT HANDLIN' OUR BUSINESS!

Is it the "Jewish-controlled Media"?

Hey, Harry …. Interesting post. The part that particularly caught my eye was your theory that the media – and the “powers behind the media” - support Hillary Clinton. Apart from the comical nature of the claim, I was wondering what you meant by “the powers.” I know you subscribe to the theory of a “Jewish-controlled media,” so I couldn’t help but wonder how your premise of a pro-Hillary bias fits in with your theory. Just a coincidence, perhaps?

BTW – Interesting choice of currency (railing against the media’s raking in the “ducats.”). Now, there are hundreds of currencies out there to choose from. There are literally dozens of commonly-referenced currencies in use today. The most obvious of course, in the context of the US media, would be the dollar. Yet, you choose the “ducat” - an antiquated currency that hasn’t been used in decades. It also happens to be the currency famously (and frequently) referenced in Shakespeare’s “The Merchant of Venice.” You remember that one, right? The one featuring Shylock – a Jewish moneylender - as its most prominent character? Wow, Red – put that together with your “Jewish-controlled media” theory and one might get the impression that it was an intentional reference. And, what’s that other word? Oh yeah ……………

………… anti-Semitic.

There You Go Again........

Mining "Google" again, for a hodge-podge collection of disparate, disconnected bits of DATA, are you? You want to pretend---so badly---that you're INTELLIGENT! But, you're just pathetically deceptive, (and devious)...

IF I wanted to indicate its a "Jewish-controlled media"---I WOULD HAVE SAID SO! IF I thought that was the case---I would have stated as much! I can't help how YOUR demented mind processes information, but, for the record, the "powers" that be, behind the scenes, come in ALL ilks, stripes and persuasions. The ones before you (on the air), are only relaying what is handed to them. They are simply the 'minions'.

However, it is the CORPORATIONS, many of whom are multi-national, and many of whom are run by wealthy Republicans, and foreign interests, who call the shots. For Example, FOX being owned by Republican Rupert Murdock; Former General Electric CEO, Jack Welch, calls the shots at MSNBC and NBC. The same with ABC (Disney), etc. These men are POWERFUL REPUBLICANS. You might want to take note of this quote:

" Outfoxed (Investigative documentary by Robert Greenwald--gosh! A Jew!) examines how media empires, led by Rupert Murdoch's Fox News, have been running a "race to the bottom" in television news. This film provides an in-depth look at Fox News and the dangers of ever-enlarging corporations taking control of the public's right to know.....http://www.outfoxed.org/

Why would corporations NEED to exercise such influence?....because: "The global commercial-media system is radical in that it will respect no tradition or custom, on balance, if it stands in the way of profits. But ultimately it is politically conservative, because the media giants are significant beneficiaries of the current social structure......
http://www.globalissues.org/HumanRights/Media/Corporations/Owners.asp

How does any of this relate to Hillary and the political campaigns? Examine the info demonstrated by these two videos: http://www2.freepress.net/actionnetwork/node/408

Also, read the following report: (if you're lazy, start on page 17), however, given WHO is running in this years campaign race, I think its noteworthy to quote:

"It was quite another (situation) for a similar bill to pass out of Senator McCain’s
Commerce Committee with the support of Senators Ted Stevens,
Trent Lott, Elizabeth Dole, and Olympia Snowe.........It was a bipartisan reaction
to public outrage that spoke to a much more sweeping agenda aimed
not only at reversing ownership rules, but visiting deep inquiry upon
the nature of media regulation in general. (pg.19)
http://www.wcl.american.edu/journal/lawrev/53/scott.pdf?rd=1

I'm not going to do your homework for you...but operating under the premise you might learn something, I've started you with this.

As far as your cute little "Merchant of Venice" references---its obvious what happened. YOU DIDN'T HAVE A CLUE WHAT A DUCAT WAS....so you googled "Ducat" and one of its references quoted its use in the aforementioned play. So you wracked your little wretched imagination to create a way to enter it into your post; striving desperately to make a correlation between the two. THATS CALLED A STRAINED METAPHOR.

What you have attempted to do would be the equivalent of me trying to make a connection with say, Odysseus, who, in Greek mythology, (physically), and aimlessly, wandered the seas for 10 years, trying to desperately to find his way home; but was continuously lost, and befuddled in his attempts. Now, I COULD say that is a good metaphor for the way your MENTALITY works---but I would be STRAINING to make that correlation----on the other hand,...maybe not.

Again, for the record, youngster, where I'M from, "ducats" was slang---whenever we referred to MONEY! So, if you perceive me to be "anti-semitic"-----oh well.

BTW: as usual, you misquoted the info on Shakespeare, I COULD have gotten it from here(no Shylock) so, what does that make me now:

Hamlet:
"How now? A rat? Dead, for a ducat, dead!"
Hamlet (III, iv, 23)

I say never underestimate the Odyssean mind...

Because, Red, I've been at parties when a single brain, wandering aimlessly, can sometimes offer a great deal of entertainment. So there is value to be found where one least expects it. I say we drink a toast to the Odysseans among us, for they are part of the human fabric, straining metaphors though they may, waging the seemingly unending battle against broken synapses and disjointed neurons...

Then why does your Odyssean mind ...

... provide so little entertainment, PG? ... clouded by all that pent-up anger?

BTW - Good to see you holding Red's hand again. Have you two set a date yet? Be sure to let us know where you're registered!

Red, PG - Don't Feed the McCain-Lieberman Troll

Just ignore his tantrums and he'll get bored - eventually - and go away to stump for Holy Joe the Quisling....

Hey, "Doc"

I noticed the thread where Redbaron asked if you were a doctor or if the "dr" was just your initials.

Weren't you seriously pissed at him?

Its O.K., Doc.....

I'm familiar with the little creeps so-called "attack" mode. HE HAS to talk his crap because--ITS ALL HE GOT!

You noticed when he made his little jewish-media screed---he NEVER went back to addressing what I posted. He's like a brain-dead, doofus cow that likes to stand in its own shit---and then EATS the grass underneath it.

He's TRULY fascinated with his own 'handiwork".

Wow ... Redbaron IS an anti-Semite ...

... who rails against the "Jewish-controlled media." It's not "disconnected bits of data", Red - it's YOUR words. It's been a couple of years, so I'll "refresh your recollection,' as they say. Here's what YOU said.

“There are many of us here that understands----we are ALL oppressed---yet, his people in Palestine (and elsewhere) will---and do---regard us as comic fools and peons for the power structure of America , we need to ACT--on what we all discuss among ourselves when whites are not present---that there is something evilly wrong with American foreign policy that allows a country to brutalize and murder a whole people for their own selfish, greedy goals----and then, try to justify it in the name of "Christianity' with the Jewish-controlled media ALWAYS portraying the Palestinians as vile 'terrorists' “ – RedbaronSIU (posted 29 months ago) http://www.flickr.com/photos/triciawang/38922728/page3/#comment22540201

Now, while YOU may believe the media is controlled by Jews, any sane progressive will recognize this canard for what it is – a vile, racist, ant-Semitic conspiracy theory. As the ADL says, “The myth of "Jewish controlled" media has long been a staple of anti-Semites.” http://www.adl.org/media_watch/tv/20040625-CNN.htm . Of course, it’s also been thoroughly debunked http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=1365 .

In terms of the “ducat” reference, I’m well aware of its use as a slang term for money, and normally, it wouldn’t raise an eyebrow. However, when it’s used in a criticism of the media by someone who openly promotes a blatantly anti-Semitic, media conspiracy theory (i.e. “the Jewish-controlled media”), well … it raises more than an eyebrow (BTW – I appreciate the “youngster” reference, but I read both “Hamlet” and “The Merchant of Venice” many years ago, and I did not “misquote the info on Shakespeare.” “Ducats” are referenced in both.).

You should try Googling “Jewish-controlled media” and see who else subscribes to this theory. Pretty nasty stuff Red … I could only go through the first few pages, but it puts you in some nice company:

Richard Nixon and Billy Graham http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCuCLA0DhBs
www.jewwatch.com
Neo-nazi Stormfront http://www.stormfront.org/jewish/whorules.html
David Duke! http://www.davidduke.com/writings/10-03-01.shtml
White nationalist conspiracy theorists http://www.conspiratology.com/
Americanwomensuck http://www.americanwomensuck.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=12639

… and a whole bunch more.

Too bad you’re an African-American man, Red. Oh well ……. maybe the Americanwomensuck group would let you join. Unless, of course ...

... you're already a member.

And PREJUDICED, TOO.....

Your point is....WHAT?

I STILL stand by what I said then, as I do now,---so what? YOU labeling me is the least of my fears. First, you can call me what you want, thats your 1st amendment rights at work. Secondly, if I don't like what you said, I know how to speak up. Third, I don't believe in backing off anything I say; I remember WHY I said it. If you said it--STAND BY IT.

Read the whole script, idiot, I'm not going to explain it--but the context of that thread explains itself. It was just AFTER katrina---(and some personal issues), and I'm not apologizing for ANYTHING I said, (or thought), back then. Make of it what you will.

I'm suppose to believe YOU NEVER said ANYTHING racially controversial---I doubt it. Hell. you could have quoted me saying something controversial, RIGHT HERE!

However, I do appreciate you taking the time to 'review' my old threads---you MIGHT learn something. I'm on your WEE MIND, huh? When you're ready let me know, I'll direct you to other sites, threads, and blogs where I've got OTHER "handles" besides "RedBaronSIU"!

Assuming YOU'RE Jewish----what makes YOU think I HAVE to agree with EVERYTHING Israel does? What makes you think I have too, Lieberman-like, operate on a DUAL-CITIZENSHIP premise? What makes you think Jews are above criticism? What makes you think Israel's treatment of the Palestinians is something I'm suppose to AUTOMATICALLY support---because they're ALLIES?!? Are you stupid? And typically, if Israel does something wrong--THE ACT--of what was done wrong is NEVER discussed; rather, the fact that I said it, NOW becomes the NEW argument--one of you're being 'anti-semitic'. Israel just got through using this same ploy on Jimmy Carter--not a month ago! And you'll be the first to howl, when some BLACK PERSON cries "racism" in a similar situation.

I'm familiar with how that "deflective" argument is waged---you're doing it now. You have no arguments, and you're tired of initiating the subject, then I take it from you; and subsequently, use YOUR argument to KICK YOUR ASS ALL OVER THIS THREAD!

Like America, if they've done something I find offensive--I'll call 'em out on it---JUST LIKE THIS COUNTRY! If my tax dollars are supplementing Israel to the tune of 32 thousand a year--PER CITIZEN---and I THEN HAVE TO step over BLACK MEN sleeping in the subways HERE in AMERICA--you haven't heard HALF the things I COULD say.

I FIND IT amusing that in that passage YOU cited, I criticize 1)America, 2)Hip-Hop, 3)whites, 4)Christianity, 5)Blacks, 6)Kanye West, 7)Politics, 8)Bushs Admin.....9)Jews, yet, ALL, you saw was "Anti-Semitic" speech. You're a piece of work.

I don't need to "Google" "Jewish-controlled media"---I'm VERY familiar with WHY I used it. When you've caught up the subject---let ME know, and we'll go from there. Selah

Exposed ...

... as a racist, anti-Semite. Ouch, Red ... But hey, even David Duke is proud of his racist rantings, so why not?

Hey, nice touch with the straw-man arguments (so many in one post):

1) "Assuming you're Jewish" - Well, now .... why would you assume that, Harry? Because I'm offended by blatantly anti-Semitic conspiracies (i.e. "the Jewish-controlled media")? Wow .... I think most rational people take offense to those. You know what they say when you start to "assume" things, right Harry? (Oooops ...... too late).

2) "What makes you think I have too, Lieberman-like, operate on a DUAL-CITIZENSHIP premise?" - Who said you "have to operate on a DUAL_CITIZENSHIP premise", or even should?

3) "What makes YOU think I HAVE to agree with EVERYTHING Israel does?" - Ummm....... that's easy. I don't. I don't agree with a lot of what Israel does. Half the people in Israel disagree with a lot of what Israel does. Are you serious?

4) "What makes you think Israel's treatment of the Palestinians is something I'm suppose to AUTOMATICALLY support---because they're ALLIES?!?" - Uh, hate to tell you, Harry... I don't support Israel's treatment of the Palestinians. Why would you assume ...........oh, forgot. I'm a Jew. We control the media .... and we're loyal to Israel over all else. Got it.

5) "I don't need to "Google" "Jewish-controlled media"---I'm VERY familiar with WHY I used it." Yeah ... and now we're all painfully aware of why you used it, too. The point, however, (as was obvious from my post) was to show you the types of people that, like you, subscribe to the theory of a "Jewish-controlled media." "Context of the thread?" There is no context for ranting about the "Jewish-controlled media." Like I said, you're in good company.

Hey, could you put all this in a pamphlet or something, so those of us with "wee" minds can remember it all? Wait ...... forget it. I think I can cut and paste it from the Jew Watch website.

Thanks for reminding me about your "evil white people" rant. "We need to stop being so concerned with 'cross-over' appeal, white-media coverage, et.al, and consider turning our wealth, creativity and spiritual power inward to our own people---and leave these corrupt, evil white people to their devices (as surely as they left thousands of black souls to theirs in New Orleans). And I don't want anyone posting behind to remind me that what I'm saying is devisive--WE ARE ALREADY A DIVIDED COUNTRY!!---Smell the coffee!"
http://www.flickr.com/photos/triciawang/38922728/page3/#comment22540201 . Divisive? You!?! Says who!?! But just to clarify, who exactly are those "evil white people"? Could you be a little more specific? Somehow I think you're talking about more than the ones who butchered the federal response ..... 'cause that opinion wouldn't be remotely "divisive". Kindly elaborate.

Now I'm ready for the names of you other handles and the other threads/blogs. I'd love to see what kind of racist, garbage you're spewing elsewhere! ............ Seriously.

BTW - When are you gonna start to "KICK (MY) ASS ALL OVER THIS THREAD!"?

Another Irrelevancy Speaks

Geraldine Ferraro, one of the biggest "losers" in political history, said today that she might not vote for Obama because he is "sexist." That this wing of the Democratic Party has been monumentally unsuccessful in either seeking or holding office should be no surprise to anyone. Ahem to the comment by ERW below. If these people can't persuade, they lie; if they can't win, they cheat.

"Hatred" - Nah - It's seeing what's real

I don't have time for hate. It's a wasted emotion. P.M. I don't know, and don't care to know what pugnaciousness (?) means. I do know what "denial" means. I saw a poll in The Boston Herald this morning in which 50% of those who responded said if Hillary is not the nominee - they would vote for McCain. If the people, who responded to this poll, are willing to take the chance of who knows how many more years of war, more neo-cons being appointed to the Supreme Court, Roe v. Wade being overturned, and - facing the prospect of their great-grand children paying off the national debt, because their candidate lost, who am I to deny them that? I don't see any of the columns that P.M. Carpenter has written about the Clinton campaign as being anything but fact. It's not "bashing" it's not "hate". It's fact. She lost. She has also done a pretty good job in taking down the Democratic Party with her. So, to Hillary supporters: I don't care how you vote. I don't care what you do for the rest of your lives. I just don't care. You are not important in the overall scheme of things. You became irrelevant when you began to throw tantrums. You became irrelevant when you continued to back a candidate, at the expense of my party. I don't hate you. I don't hate your candidate. I just don't see you any more. You became invisible to me months ago.

Wow!

Absolutely fantastic. I don't know how any of her supporters can show their pinched faces after that.

Hey Bill

If you support a straight up lying rule bending, will say anything and do anything cheat, just so she can be elected. I don't mind. At least Bush waited until he got elected before the bald faced lying started.

I don't like doing this as I posted below

Are you telling me Obama doesn't lie, and that he isn't a politician that will do what it takes to win? If you truly believe that then your myopic view of politics can be explained. Bill

You Don't LIKE Doing it - But You KEEP Doing it Anyway, Wrando

You keep assuming everyone who supports Obama is some kind of fruitcake cultist, and you keep propping-up strawwoman arguments to justify your hatred of him and us. Of course he's lied and wants to win - but he's repeatedly demonstrated that what HE considers "what it takes to win" has limits that Hillary Clinton clearly considers "quaint and outdated" - just like Alberto Gonzalez said about prohibitions on torture....

Has it ever occurred to you that maybe a lot of us are just SICK of rude, nasty ad hominem politics as usual, as practiced by Republicans and The Clintons? Did you consider that maybe Obama's shame at, rather than gleeful pride in, his (tightly-controlled) outbursts of temper might have impressed some of us more than whatever Moon-and-Arpege Politician's Promises he's made? Have you ever entertained the notion that, after this long and vicious nomination campaign, maybe those of us who support him do so not b/c he's male or Black - but b/c He's Just Got Class and She Demonstrably...Doesn't?

Selah.

fruitcake or cultist?

Those are you're words not mine, as for your reasons for supporting Obama, they're yours and they don't need to be explained to me or anyone else. You should give the same courtesy to people who disagree. I like Obama, I just like Hillary's positions and strength more. You assume every Hillary supporter is a potencial McCain vote. I think you're wrong. Ive been a democrat long before either of theses candidates came along. Obama has most of the math and the press in his pocket:why so angry? Bill

Typical BS from the losers

It's the new catch phrase for Hill supporters. Obama supporters have been hoodwinked and we are all koolaid drinkers and cultists. I have read it hundreds of times, seen pathetically unfunny skits about it, cartoons about it, and whatever other "ingenius" jab a Hillary lovin loser can come up with today. Bottom line, Obama has shown better judgement on a myriad of issues in the last several years than Hillary. If Hillary had done what's best for the country instead of trying to show off her hypothetical testicles for the last 8 years she wouldn't be having her dreams of Clintonian empire crashing down around her. Her ignorant supporters need to look no further than their beloved candidate, to see what went so "horribly wrong".

Of course most Hillary

Of course most Hillary Clinton supporters cast sane votes even when their candidate fails to get the nomination. The difficulty that remains for these Democratic vote casters is to see and accept that the ongoing pain, turmoil, etc., is controlled by Hillary Clinton. It isn't even a matter of dropping out or not, but the fashion in which she is campaigning, deliberately twisting her potential supporters' minds and instigating their destructive passions. The damage is aimed at her supporters, not Obama's supporters, most of whom also wish that this farce would end--that Hillary Clinton would end it and quit trying to damage her remaining supporters.

Man of Hope

Wrando, Hillary has already lied, she was even presumptious enough to play the race card. Don't you see that Obama is the candidate of the people? Please don't allow the R-slime to continue ruining this country. Hillary has lost, whether she accepts it or not. Obama '08!!

race card

http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=aa0cd21b-0ff2-4329-88a1-69c6c268b304

Stop The Drama, Please....

The funniest thing I ever saw,
Was Hillary's backers, scratch and claw.

They cannot win, you know its true,
That is why, they act so blue.

They tell tall tales, make up lies,
The average voter, they do despise.

The game is over, they cannot win,
all they have left, is hopeful spin.

Republican lite, with centrist babble,
racist comments, lies of battle.

Yet they won't quit or go away,
Make Obama lose, is the game to play.

The reason they do so is really clear,
A Black President is what they fear.

Make him lose or go away,
So Hillary can try another day (2012).

If they get their way America will lose,
Four more years of Bush type views.

A loss of freedom, maybe no return,
the Middle East will really burn.

Americas children will keep on dying,
the economy will have us all crying.

So go ahead you Hillary lovers,
clearly we see, you are not our brothers.

You're right, Maddmoe ...

We're not your brothers, that much is true,
My brothers can all count past two.

The Clinton-haters, like Maddmoe,
think Hillary's an "Eff'in Ho!"

Say "Hillary" - their mouths will foam,
(must be that extra chromosome).

Instead of "Wolf!", they scream "Repug!" and "Racist!",
No mind their feeble whines ... they're baseless.

So pay no heed to the Clinton-haters,
They're just a group of master ...... "baiters".

I'm curious.

Yman- Why is "master.....'baiters'" so fresh on your mind? Can't you get Bill Clinton's wife to "take care" of you? She's done just about everything else in exchange for a vote.

It's obvious you ARE ("curious", that is)

Can't help it, Bettysdad ... just pops into my head whenever you're around. Must be all those issues you have with women ... Makes me feel a little sorry for you ...

... and your calluses.

Wow!

Hey yman, that's some comeback. Why don't you print it out, and take it in for show 'n tell.

Can I? Really!?!?

Thanks, bettysdad! You know your approval means a lot ......................... to someone .................... somewhere ..........

......... maybe?

BTW - Why all the issues with women and authority (police, etc.)? Ugly divorce, huh? (Makes me all warm inside just thinking about it).

Ode to Yboy.......

Much to our chagrin....there is no joy
cause here comes again...that fool, Yboy.

you're right--its true, you're not our brother
cause we're not sure you even know your mother

Your love for Hill--proves you've been had!
Is this what makes you such a CAD?

You think you're witty...but alas, not so!
Your empty blather is simply show...

you're pissed, thats all, and this is true
cause Hill didn't win & now you're blue!

So like a wimp---you just bitch and moan....
(it must be YOUR double XX chromosome!)

Causing you to feel.......oh, so cheated
but face the facts---your girl's DEFEATED!

Good line...

...Double XX chromosome...brilliant!

That's it?

Alas, Red thinks I am not witty,
I guess that means I should feel shitty.

But Red's opinings matter not,
It's his "farewells" that should be sought.

C'mon Red, you should be sending,
another "Dirty Harry" ending.

Like "Count on it!", or "I'll be back!",
An impotent, empty "wimp" attack.

You make me laugh, it gives me joy,
when you whine like a little boy.

Have a drink, it won't be long,
You'll get your blogger muscles on!

A "Fairy" Tale.....of Love

Yboy's no wit--in fact, he's kooky
his obsession with Hill...is rather spooky
He thinks he sees, some fancy "beauty"
I personally think: ITS ABOUT THE BOOTY!

He tried to win the hand of Chelsea
but she wasn't into his cerebral palsy
So he flashed that smile--and got all "hunky"
She laughed and said, "I don't date monkeys"

Hurt, confused, he came to this thread
and all its readers were filled with dread
at the blow-heart words of one brain-dead
wasting space---with nothing said

To Monica he said: "What should I do?"
She said, "a bath would get the STINK off you!
So he brushed his TOOTH, with SUPER chlorophyll
So happy to be on a date with Bill !

Bring it up a notch or three

While your poem rhymes, its in the gutter. You can do better. This post deserves it, and so do Democrats and independents that read it.