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The Democratic Party's Fascinating Squalor

THE FIFTH COLUMNIST by P.M. Carpenter

The more presumptive Barack Obama's nomination becomes -- which should serve to unify and strengthen the party -- the more presumptuous Hillary Clinton's campaign becomes -- which serves only to divide and weaken the party. But whether you find that bilateral paradox frustrating or fatiguing, you have to admit the Clinton camp's singular presumptuousness is also quite fascinating. In itself it has become our political "Show of Shows," pretty much the only thing readers care to read, or viewers view.

I give you, case in point, Clinton camp-follower Gov. Ed Rendell, who appeared yesterday on "Meet the Press" only to utter some of the most manifestly absurd, politically presumptuous rhetoric ever to hit the airwaves. And that's saying a lot. Even the normally unflappable Tim Russert was ... flapped?

The fun began when host Russert asked surrogate Rendell what the former foolishly framed as a "simple question" -- that being if superdelegates might still reject every known model of democratic leverage and hand the nomination to the loser, Hillary. Rendell was positively perky in his provisional deception: "Sure," Tim. "It depends on what trends are happening. And number one, Hillary Clinton's ahead in electoral votes, states carried with the most electoral votes, number one. Number two, popular vote, I think the popular vote will narrow decidedly in the next seven or eight contests. And if you count Florida and Michigan, in truth, Hillary Clinton would've won the popular vote."

At that, Russert went as ballistic as NBC's legal department permits. It was, as they say, a hoot: "Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, wait," bleated Russert. "Stop there. Stop there, Governor, because Senator Clinton tried that yesterday, in terms of [moving] the goalposts. This is what she said in Oregon about Florida and Michigan." And this, indeed, is what she said:

"Now, some say their votes should be ignored and that the popular vote in Michigan and Florida should just be discounted. Well, I have a different view. The popular vote in Florida and Michigan has already been counted. It was determined by election results. It was certified by election officials in each state. It's been officially tallied by the secretary of state in each state."

Russert then reminded Rendell of what Hillary said last year: "You know, it's clear this election they're having in Michigan is not going to count for anything." Not only that, Russert then quoted Rendell on Rendell from that far saner era: "You can't make any argument in Michigan because Hillary was the only person who was on the ballot. I'm as avid a Hillary supporter as there is, but I don't think we can make an argument in Michigan."

So Russert had him dead to rights, right? No way out? Cornered like a rodent pol? Not really, because Rendell's absolute perfection of presumptuousness had yet to kick in. "I think," he began with questionable wording, "that I was talking about seating the delegates. You can't seat the delegates in Michigan because she had no one on the ballot against her. You certainly should seat the delegates from Florida, where she won by 300,000 votes.... But we can ... settle it right now. Let's revote in Michigan and Florida. We're willing. The Clinton campaign is willing to test our popular vote mandate. Let's revote in Florida and Michigan. What's wrong with that?"

I hope you've made it this far, for we've now arrived at the best, most staggeringly presumptuous part. Russert: "But, Governor, I want to make sure I got this down. You've said you can't seat the delegates in Michigan, but you can count the popular vote, even though Obama wasn't on the ballot?"

OK. Are you ready for this? Rendell: "Right, because, Tim, you're running against yourself. That's the hardest thing. You can ask any politician. What's the hardest contest to run against? It's [for instance] Bob Casey vs. we don't like Bob Casey. [Yet] Hillary Clinton got 55 percent of the vote in Michigan."

Now I put it to you: Have you ever heard anything so stupendously idiotic? What Gov. Rendell just said, in all purported sincerity, is that the toughest political race for any pol is the one in which he or she runs unopposed. Go ahead, just ask any politician.

These are the sordidly argumentative lengths the Clinton camp is willing to go; the demagogic depths to which it's willing to sink. Even "presumptuous" fails to capture their intelligence-insulting essence.

You may have noted that Rendell also contradicted his own candidate in calling for a revote, since she has already pronounced the illegitimate popular-vote counts as "certified," "officially tallied" and therefore, mutatis mutandis, legitimate. 

And just to muddy up the waters even more, in suggesting that revotes should be staged -- even though, remember, the original votes are now "certified" -- Rendell innocently asked, "What's wrong with that?" Actually, such fork-tongued graciousness harbors a huge but never-mentioned, what's-wrong-with-that problem. At this point, even if technically possible a revote in either state would be a grossly unfair fight, since vast swaths of voters in both states have been unceasingly brainwashed by one camp that the other camp much prefers to exclude their voice. That underhanded toothpaste can't be put back in the tube. Had Clinton never contrived it as an issue, a revote might indeed be a plausible if not the proper thing to do. But not now.

What is clearer today than yesterday is that Obama will be the nominee, and tomorrow that will be even clearer. That is no longer the issue or concern. The real problem now arising for the Democratic Party is that Hillary is toiling to convince a critically marginal number of her supporters that Obama's coming nomination will not be on the up-and-up -- that it was, in mysteriously assorted ways, stolen, and that "They was robbed."

In short, Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton, D-NY, is systematically delegitimizing the Democratic Party's presidential nominee. I have never seen anything like it -- and it is genuinely fascinating in all its paradoxical squalor.

Please respond to P.M.'s commentary by leaving comments below and sharing them with the BuzzFlash community. For personal questions or comments you can contact him at fifthcolumnistmail@gmail.com

THE FIFTH COLUMNIST by P.M. Carpenter




Clinton's bizarre statements

I saw Hillary Clinton this morning on CNN. She is truly amazing in her ability to not answer the questions asked of her. But what really struck me was her pandering to the warmongers.

When asked about the occupation of Iraq, she actually said that our brave troops have given the Iraqis the "greatest gift" - their freedom! Oh. My. God. And she said that the Iraqis can no longer expect the US to do all the work and that it's time for them to fend for themselves.

Is anyone out there not completely stunned by this outrageous nonsense? Well. OK. We did free a large number of Iraqis from the burden of living. And many from their families, livelihoods, and health. Oh, yeah, and from the ability to feel safe in their homes. (So, just exactly how is this different from their lives under Saddam Hussein?)

Wow! And she not only said that the US has honored Iraq with this great gift of freedom, she repeated it several times. So, Hillary Clinton thinks that it was perfectly fine for the US to go into Iraq, bomb their cities, round up their citizens, destroy families, torture prisoners, devastate their historical monuments and buildings, shut down hospitals, and build a veritable stronghold city in their midst. Because we "gave" them freedom. Of course, the troops did protect the oil ministry, so I guess that counts for something. Does she really believe that the US did something grand and wonderful and that the Iraqis are responsible for all this destruction? Or that they OWE us something?

Unbelievable and unconscionable. This woman is too dreadful to contemplate. I guess she figures she has to do the whole "patriotic" bit in order to not turn off the jingoists. So much for integrity.

Just to be consistent ...

... another well-known candidate claims that U.S. military action is "giving the Iraqi people an opportunity to bring their country together." - Barack Obama, April 26, 2007, South Carolina Democratic debate. http://www.berkeleydailyplanet.com/issue/2007-05-04/article/26989 .

Question - If Hillary lacks integrity by pandering to warmongers and jingoists when she says we gave the Iraqi people "freedom," what is Obama doing when he says we gave them the "opportunity to come together"?

DP's Fascniating Squalor

This is to be expected since Hillary is role is to play the spoiler in this campaign. Osama CANNOT become President. Period. This reveals the cozy relationship she and Bill have with the Bush Machine - the Clinton's both worked for Poppy Bush when he was DCIA, so what would you expect? After all, the Bush Machine is dedicated to a continuation of Dubya's regime at all cost. We are going to see some pretty incredible shanigans in the next few months. Fasten your seat belts and witness some historical events the likes of which will put your head in a spin ! PS Don't forget there is a guy named Gore waiting in the wings - you don't suppose that if Osama meets an untimely . . . .

Webster's

Somebody needs to give Mrs. Bill Clinton and Rendell a dictionary so they can look up th meaning of "election." It involves at least two parties.

unpaid bills

Mrs Clinton seems to be leaving a trail of unpaid bills all over the country.

This was Spam

This was Spam.

Too bad

I guess the rethugs aren't the only ones using newspeak nowadays, huh? War is Peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is Power.

Delegitimized?

The only things delegitimized by the illogical blatherings of the Clinton camp is their membership in the Democratic Party. People who try to pass off nonsense as truth belong on the other side of the aisle. I predict that the GOP will collapse in this election cycle, the Religious Right will abandon them and start their own Party of God, and the Clintons along with their DLC cronies will take over the ruins, with Hillary running as a Republican against Obama in 2012. Hey, it's not any crazier a prediction than "the Iraqis will welcome our troops with flowers."

Swami Says....

All this will guarantee a permanent, progressive Democratic party for 40 years.

Hey, Askoldnick....got a question for you...

or for P.M. Carpenter, for that matter... This is an interesting article showing how the Clinton campaign is stretching to make their case - and apparently getting more desperate by the day...

But here's my request - and invitation - to you, especially to buzzflash's most prolific poster, askoldnick...

askoldnick, I think everyone who reads the site regularly is aware that you don’t like anything about Hillary Clinton – in fact, pretty much hate everything about her. As you know, I’ve got issues with Hillary too – but, and here’s the thing…her platform and position on the issues that matter to me, seem to be somewhat more progressive than Obama’s positions on those same issues. But, maybe I’m missing something.

So, here’s my invitation (challenge, I guess) to you… Please explain to me (and the rest of us here on Buzzflash) why Obama is the progressive candidate in this race. Go ahead and get into the specifics of his platform and policy stands on issues like health care, climate change, nuclear power, coal power, tax issues, the Iraq and Afghanistan wars, middle eastern diplomacy, or anything else you think is pertinent… and explain to us why he is a candidate that progressive Democrats and Independents should be enthusiastically supporting.

There is only one catch in my request to you – please make your case for Obama without mentioning Hillary Clinton even once – simply give us the reasons we should be supporting Obama, based solely on his campaign and his positions on the issues.

Thanks - I look forward to your reply.

Mrs. Bill Clinton

Before we get into how progressive Obama is or isn't, let's discuss the plain facts that Hillary is a pathological liar, mudslinger, smear merchant, and pretty much a Republican.

What is this,

What is this, Change-the-Topic-Utterly Day? Anyway, one response would be that Barack Obama doesn't have a history of spectacular failure in getting something like a healthcare system passed, while Hillary Clinton does and doesn't give the impression she has changed her "style", and so an attempt to change the topic to comparison of what the candidates have on paper, without regard to whose paper that is, is a pointless waste of time.

Just Curious.....

Demdog---with all due respect, because I've read, and agreed, with many of your posts; but what you ask here is rather odd.

Mainly, because in various posts by a large number of posters, are, the answers to your request. Further, I think the two previous respondees, (PG and Doc Prod), pretty much spot-lighted the only viable item left to discuss concerning the two.

Hillarys policy positions, (as Stated), are no longer relevant, because ethical issues, like honesty, truthfulness, and reliability have supplanted the veracity of her policies. To wit, just look at the last WEEK--she has constantly told working-class Pennsylvanians that "she understands their pain" concerning their unemployment, (abetted by NAFTA--Clinton policy), suppressed wages and salaries (from a 100 million dollar candidate) etc. You see, nobody HEARS her policy comments WHEN THE REALITIES OF THEIR LIVES ARE SCREAMING SO LOUDLY IN THEIR EARS.

Finally, IF Askolnick DID the work, and met your request, (his right),---would it serve any REAL purpose? You read these posts, so I know you're familiar with the running battles some of us have with Hillary's followers, who, for the most part, are willingly detached from reality, and in an extreme state of denial, (in some cases). IF HE, (of all people), AGAIN, were to itemize, say 10, 100 or 1,000 points out-lining Obama's policies, would he have ANY more SUCCESS in changing any of their hearts, (or minds), then he had previously? Would THEY think any differently of him---then they have in the past? Most likely assuming: here he goes again: just another Obama water-carrier? You're asking him to open himself up to a variety of attacks from twits like: Robert(Anita)Jones, Yboy(Yman), and others. So, again, does meeting your request serve any real purpose? .....Other than, again, to re-state the obvious.........Just curious.

Points well taken...

Thanks, RedBaron, for the thoughtful response... I think that Senator Obama pretty much has a lock on the nomination at this point, and am hoping that we start taking a harder look at his positions on the issues that matter to so many people. As I've said before, I've carefully read his policy statements and always find them to be somewhat to the right of Clinton's positions on the same issues.

And I've yet to hear a convincing argument why progressives should be fired up about him as a candidate. By the way, I'm definitely not fired up about Clinton either, but between the two, really hope we end up with someone who can actually win this election.

I keep thinking I must be missing something, because so many seemingly progressive people do seem to be so invested in Obama. But whenever I ask, all I seem to get is anti-Hillary rhetoric and even insults thrown my way.

Disliking Senator Clinton just isn't enough to convince me, especially when her opponent seems to be representing a position and plan which is actually to the right of her politically.

Thanks to all who responded to my question - gives me a better idea of where you're coming from on this important issue...

Your question is relevant...

But only in a vacuum I'm afraid. Personally, (and Askolnick is perfectly capable of speaking for himself and needs no help from me), I no longer particularly care what Hillary's positions on the issues are because I can no longer trust her to implement them as given. As an Edwards supporter originally, Obama is to the right of me on nuclear energy and the "need" for social security reform, among other things, and he may ultimately dissapoint my progressive values if elected. But my choice at this point is to go with a Citi-Group loving, bankruptcy bill DLC candidate who is almost guarenteed to disappoint me (Hillary), or one that I hope will govern as progressively as he speaks and often votes (Obama). How can a thinking person not choose at least a sliver of hope for progressivism over a corporate-loving psuedo conservative? I don't mean to burst your bubble on this question you pose, but the policy positions of a pathological liar like Hillary mean about as much to me as watching flies fuck. (credit to George Carlin) So therefore, the positions of Obama--with the question of the two candidates' liberalism being relatively equal--should be irrelevant as well, assuming he has the greater credibility of the two (which he does, at least for the time being). In that context--the only relevent question is--how can I NOT choose Obama? Askolnick, let er rip.

No thanks,

No thanks, pg. I don't take questions seriously from anyone who mocks my name. Besides, you gave him a good enough answer. If he wants more, tell him to go watch two horse flies fuck.

Thanks...

for the mature response.

Exactly, PGBowden!

That's why I support Obama - and can no longer in good conscience support the Clintons. You said it a LOT better than I've been able to....

How about a HONEST moderate progressive

From another corner of the circle...Your right, their positions are more or less equally progressive (although Barack has been named the MOST Liberal Senator, according to the National Journal, if that means anything). So let's say its more or less a draw on Progressive Pedigrees. I suggest the answer is that Barack's distinguishing difference is that he more likely believes in his stated policies, and as a result will deliver on them. Remember, words aren't important....

Thanks...

but I'm asking for some specifics... BTW, National Journal's ratings are pretty much bogus and are generally used by the right-wing to denigrate dem candidates. Remember how John Kerry was rated "most liberal" in 2004? Bush and the echo chamber made that one of the prime talking points throughout the campaign.

You can find several articles about the lack of credibility of National Journal ratings at MediaMatters or by doing a simple search. A recent analysis can be found here. Oh, and they ranked Clinton as 16th "most liberal" Senator...

Can anyone tell me how Senator Obama's policies and proposals can be considered truly progressive?

I don't mean to be terse...

but if you're looking for "specifics," why don't you go to his website and look at his positions and stop asking other people to do the work you should be doing yourself. You seem to be making some clever gambit that no one on this site can come up with any liberal positions that Obama holds when anybody with two ears and eyes has heard him voice the need to address global warming, income inequality, energy independence and the need to put an end to war and use diplomacy, to name a few. I am well aware of the study you cite and I base no opinion from it. As I said before, this has little to do with policy positions and everything to do with credibility. On the positions where Obama is to the right of progressives, we expect to be engaged in a running battle to get him to move to the left. That's what engaged citizens do. Your sophomoric attempt at getting people to engage in a running battle of carpal tunnel syndrome just so you can satisfy your own preconceived notions of Obama's hidden conservatism is--for lack of a better word--lame. Want specifics? Get off your lazy ass and try Googling like everybody else and stop boring the hell out of us with your own inane brand of truth or dare.

I don't mean to be terse...

pgbowden.....I don't think demdog's point was what Obama's positions are on the issues. I think his point was "do you know" what his positions are?? By side tracking the question I assume that "you do not!!" I have never talked to a Obama supporter that knows his positions. Ask a Obama supporter a legitimate question on the issues & all you get is "Hillary Hate Rhetoric" thrown at you!!! A intelligent way to conduct a conservation? Maybe for 12 year olds!!!!!!

BINGO

Let me tell you something, Socrates has been dead for a long time, and his chair hasn't been filled yet - especially not by bloggers to this site like you. That's why Obama supporters didn't answer DemDogs self-humoring sophistry (look it up). His game was a lame and transparant attempt to broadcast a popular sentiment (mantra) of Clinton supporters who dispise their new distraction - the inept Obama supporters who they posit can't provide a bullet list of his policies. We saw through DemDogs gambit and we weren't willing to accomodate his amusement, nor yours.

I gave positions, please read more carefully

I listed 4 of Obama's liberal stances in my previous post, and even acknowledged a couple of his positions I disagree with in the post before that. I can't understand how you missed it. Yeah, I probably went a little overboard in my condemnation of demdog--I guess I was still in battle mode from the previous evening. So let me apologize for that (hear that, demdog--I'm sorry). I think we (the 2 camps) are speaking over each other at this point--so right now I'm going to do my part by taking a chill pill, watch the ball game, and disappear for a few days (as work calls). I trust the 2 sides will have come together in agreement by the time I return.

Yea you did

...but it was worth reading, since I got you to reveal your truth. However, while your terse reply was brusque it was not concise.

Guess it depends on the meaning of the word "concise"

I'm not quite sure how you got me to "reveal" anything since we have yet to engage in any dialogue that I'm aware of. Sorry for the brusqueness, though...

I think you know the specifics...

...if this question is meant as a question and not as polemic sophistry, and you want to know more, then check out Barack's web site and compare yourself. I trust you can find it. As for the National Journal, I suggest that you disregard only after you read it...again, assuming your question is a question for you, not others. I cannot stomach the blather of right wing think tanks myself, so have a bottle of Tums nearby, but the National Journal is a resource for those who fear / despise Liberals and have a vested interest in identifying them - think of Tomás de Torquemada...

Ed Rendell on Meet the Press

Ed Rendell's comments come as no surprise! Talk about a desperate Clinton campaign! I fully expect Pres Clinton to tell us that the next line drawn in the sand will be with Guam!

And Performing in this Ring, All the Way from Little Rock...

What a circus, but we're used to that in WA DC, aren't we? I think we Obama supporters should sit back and enjoy the show - loosen up on calling for her resignation, until Puerto Rico gets it's say! Just look at her continued gaffs this weekend, Hillary was caught in three more false statements, in three days! Add to that Rendell's comic relief, Mark Penn's self-immolating Columbian trip, McCain's early onset Alzheimer-induced mis-statements - all of it simply showcases Barack's competence and self control.

..with a record of NO wins...and One BIG loss....

You're right! The Hillary show's been so funny to me this week, it hadn't dawned on me for some time----that I haven't seen much of Obama at all lately----and thats a good thing!

BTW, Hillary (this week) reminds me of, when I was a little kid, watching boxing matches with Joe Frazier, where he used to pound himself in the face repeatedly, and often upside his own head. Hillaryious!

Hillaryious!

Aw, you almost stole my name for her. Every time she comes up with another one of her stories, or moves the goal posts along or changes her tone of voice and actions, we laugh and say "Oh, another Hillaryarious moment".

That is what we should all be doing. Just laugh at her and her campaign. She is not worth anything more than laughter.

And, when you become a joke, you lose all power you think you have. And others lose respect for her and join in the laughter. It is infectious! Help spread it!

So laugh! Don't even discuss her points, just laugh. Point out the joke that she has become.

I am fighting cancer and laughter is good for me. Luckily, she provides me with many moments of laughter every day.

And now, bush gets into the act

News is reporting that bush sent the Colombia free trade agreement to Congress, which forces them to vote on it within 90 days. Can you say "opportunist?" This will all be blamed on Clinton and her double-duty campaign strategist/lobbyist.

Hillary and Bush

Is it true that Hillary was meeting with Bush in the White House over the weekend to make changes to the Columbia free trade agreement so that she can take credit for it if it passes in the House of Representatives this week? I heard that the Clinton's are still staying in the White House -- in the Lincoln bedroom. does anyone know if this is true?

You're thinking of Mark Penn's room...

The Lincoln bedroom rents at $50,000 per night, or at least it did in the 1990s. With inflation, Shrub must get well over $100,000 per night now. Hillary's campaign can't afford medical insurance payments for their staff, so I imagine she can't afford it (although Mark Penn could)...

unpaid bills

I saw a news report over the weekend that Mrs. Clinton is leaving a trail of unpaid bills all over the country. She should take some of her $109 million and pay off the small businesses that she's stiffing.

Fast Eddie

I remember many years ago when "Fast Eddie" was running for mayor. There was a carnival on the Blvd, and Eddie was dressed up like a clown, sitting on the bench in the dunk tank waiting for balls to be thrown at the targets so he would fall into the water. In comparison to today, he was much saner then. P.M., you made a great comment on the underhanded toothpaste. There can be no revote now that Hillary has made it seem like it was Obama's fault in taking away the voters' rights in Fla & Michigan. And if there should be a "revenge vote" (you heard it first on Chris Matthews Hard Ball), we can thank Hillary because she loves herself more than her country.

Matthews is ticked

I think the Mark Penn thing has Matthews a bit riled and (my theory) he wishes there would be a revenge vote. Clinton fired Penn but she didn't really fire him, so that means she's okay with what he's doing and, ergo, with the Colombia free trade agreement. She's trying to make it look like she dumped Penn so she can still make nice with the blue collar voters in Pennsylvania. But Pennsylvania is Matthews' home state and dammit, she's trying to pull the wool over the eyes of his people!

Just a theory.

drama queens

http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature/2008/04/07/hillary/ bill from ct

one word

Yale

two words

Yale University