Get FREE BuzzFlash News Alerts

Email:  

The Unavoidable Obsession with Hillary Clinton's Dead End

THE FIFTH COLUMNIST by P.M. Carpenter

cc

The exposed hobbies of Eliot Spitzer served at least as a musical rest in our national cacophony of the quixotic. For 48 hours we collectively labored to imagine, in a kind of cost-benefit thought experiment, the professional joys of a $5,500-an-hour working girl versus the sure disappointment of a mere $3,500 expended.

Alas I, for one, was unsuccessful in this experiment, in view of the carnal reality that the essentials are generally available in most any downtown for about 20 bucks.

Nevertheless underneath it all and now back on top with a vengeance is the political news that is virtually all race, gender, disputatious Democrats, apologies, race, gender, race, resignations, race and disputatious Democrats, rather than what lies ahead. Thank you, Eliot, for the respite, however brief -- yet we're back to the cacophony.
Some say the open disputes are a good thing; that it's so nice we can finally have this much-needed "national debate," whatever the hell that means, about race and gender. But it seems to me there's something else a trifle more pressing right now, like averting another four catastrophic years of neoconservative nincompoopism and domestic idleness.
After all, it's not that racial and gendered divisions won't still be with us in 2009. How about we just pick up then where we should leave off now, only to leave it again in 2010 as unsettled as it has been for hundreds of years in this nation. Other duty calls.
Yet the execution of that duty is getting shoved aside as we unprofitably wallow in the tactical fascinations of a preposterously quixotic campaign. It's all race, all gender, all disputatiousness and all Hillary as we follow with immoderate interest her newest inventions in trying to capture the uncapturable, to hoodwink the unhoodwinkable, to bamboozle the unbamboozable.
The numbers shall obtain, be they Obama's lead in pledged delegates, the popular will, number of states won or his consistent polling advantage against John McCain, not to mention all of these in one basket. Hence the unbamboozable -- the amassing alliance of superdelegates needed to nail this thing down -- will, in the long run, not be deterred. Just examine the numbers and you'll see that this race was effectively over weeks ago.
But there's another "yet," and it is this: There are in politics, as in physics, no absolutes. So there's that fraction of a one-percent chance that Hillary could, after all, pull some indiscernible rabbit out of some miraculous hat and beat the unbeatable odds. Gov. Spitzer may have a better chance of an evening out alone this week, but the slimmest of a possibility is nevertheless there.
So we wallow in the tactical fascinations, in all the inventiveness of Hillary's trying; for the reigning news coverage makes the virtually impossible seem almost plausible. It's a great story; a real horse race, right? Well, it is, but only if one perishes the numbers -- indeed, perishes the reality of it all.
But like in testing a sore neck -- something else we know will eventually go away on its own accord -- we can't help ourselves. We get sucked into this wasteful obsession because of Hillary's sheer pluckiness. Which is, in a word, a sight -- one that some root on for understandable reasons, and others try their best to bring into realistic focus with reams of corrective clarity.
But her damn-the-insurmountable-odds pluckiness just won't go away, so neither will our obsession. Meanwhile, however, the airing of far more profitable analyses suffers -- but this too is understandable, since there's that nagging sore neck to attend to.
For example I have wanted to cast a thought or two about this piece that appeared in the New York Times: "On Signature Issues, McCain Has Shown Some Inconsistencies in the Senate." The headline is vastly charitable, but for now the more important point is that the piece appeared 11 days ago, and I have yet the time to plumb in writing its progressively profitable depths.
Eleven days consumed by wasteful infighting, stomping on fires and indulging in our national obsession with Hillary's Hail Maryisms. Because whatever else it is, it's news, the chief topic of conversation and that's what topical writers write about.
And it's consuming us all, to John McCain's immense benefit.
As my inbox would prove, more than a few in Hillary's camp have defensively protested that she has the right to persist. Their doing so befuddles the bejesus out of me. Of course she has the right to persist. No one questions that.

The far more pertinent question is, at what cost-benefit? And that's as mystifying as the unimaginably delectable difference between a $5,500 roll in the hay and a miserly $3,500 good time.

Please respond to the commentary by leaving comments below and sharing them with the BuzzFlash community. For personal questions or comments you can contact P.M. at
fifthcolumnistmail@gmail.com

THE FIFTH COLUMNIST by P.M. Carpenter




a long-term perspective

PM does now (surpriseingly) appear to be semi-hedging on his prediction of the ultimate Obama victory, if ever so slightly, and for good reason. Because historically-speaking, the candidate that wins the most primaries, popular vote and delegates does NOT always win the nomination (look it up). This is, of course, what sustains the Clinton candidacy. But "smoke filled rooms" were all so pre-Youtube and the 24-hour news cycle. Wheeling and dealing and stealing nominations is so last century. The bottom line is that Clinton cannot win the pledged delegate vote. However, if there are new primaries in Florida and Michigan, she actually has a reasonable shot at winning the popular vote (her ultimate rationale). And remember, now that the GOP nomination is over and Limbaugh has begged his listeners to get out the Republican vote for Hill in the open primaries, we actually have a chance for dittoheads to push her over the top in that category. (See her 24% GOP showing in Mississippi after non-existant GOP support previously to March 4). So truly, even if she wins the popular vote it will be of questionable legitimacy, at least in my mind. And what good would it do her anyway? Because the superdelegates have one overriding duty (as I understand it); to vote in a way that is best for the Democratic Party. I do not believe they will allow Hillary to destroy this party in order to "save it." The long-term loss of African-American voters would be so severe and so profound and so long-term if Hillary gets the nomination under these circumstances that all the king's men could not put it back together, at least for several years. And conversely, the longer this thing goes on, and the more divisive and mean-spirited it gets, the more likely some progressive women will sit it out if Hill is denied her shot. I personally think the majority of the remaining super-delegates have already decided for Obama but are withholding this info for this very reason. They don't want to be seen as torpoedoing Hill's chance before everything shakes out, knowing full well that she cannot win the nomination. But no matter what happens, can't we all just get along? I hate seeing progressives fighting ourselves and saying things which will leave a lasting mark. Please think about that before you leave your next post.

The mark of McCain

pgbowden, I think your analysis is dead on. My only disagreement is with your assumption that the people posting many of the Clinton apologetics and attacks on Obama are progressives. No one who justifies Clinton's race baiting can possibly be a progressive. Repugnican trolls are at work here. And the lasting marks we should most worry about are those being made by the Clinton slime machine. Their Rovian tactics will be a blot on Democrats for years to come.

You can date and love her but please don't marry her

Randi Rhodes at Air America (paraphrased) said that about Hillary. Wise words i think. "Love" is the operative word here. While there are undeniably GOP trolls out and about, I choose to think that think that the Hillary supporters on this site are legitimate; that most are in love with their candidate and simply cannot see the negative aspects of her campaign and the damage it could be doing to the party. (Yes, Obama supporters suffer thusly, but we have less negatives to defend). So in this respect, while one cannot justify Clinton's race-baiting and her supporters' enabling of it, one can understand it because being "in love" has momentarily (or a bit longer) clouded their judgement. It's called being in-denial and suffering cognitive dissonance. But please remember this: Hillary's supporters are our progressive brothers and sisters. And they are in pain right now. Losing sucks. They believe in her still, regardless of what the rest of us think about the negativity of her campaign or what the polls say. And I just can't discard them as idiots or fools simply because they see this thing differently. Love will make idiots of us all. Or hate. If we let it.

Think it’s over, PM? Think again …

So PM thinks that Hillary needs to quit because “there's (only) that fraction of a one-percent chance that Hillary could, after all, pull some indiscernible rabbit out of some miraculous hat and beat the unbeatable odds.” Really? “A fraction of one percent?” How does he know this? Easy …. He just makes it up.

This is an argument that’s been repeatedly raised by SOME Obama supporters for weeks. There's no way she can win without "stealing" the election. He’s ahead, it’s over, time to quit. Only it’s not. There are still millions of voters in Pennsylvania, Guam, North Carolina, Indiana, West Virginia, Oregon, Kentucky, Montana, South Dakota, and Puerto Rico who would still like to be heard, let alone a re-vote in Florida or Michigan.

Will Obama have the lead in pledged delegates going into the convention? Almost certainly. Will he have a popular vote lead as he does now? It’s possible, maybe even probable, but far from certain. Why? Look at the numbers. Right now Obama leads in the popular vote by @700,000 votes. PA is coming up, and right now Hillary’s lead is 16% (RCP poll avg.). In Ohio alone (a smaller state than PA) she won by 10.4% and cut Obama’s lead by 230,0000. Obama’s up by 8.2% in NC (a smaller state), but there’s no data for Indiana or the other states yet. More importantly, Florida and Michigan are still hanging. “But the rules say they don’t count!” Actually, the rules say the convention committee can either: 1) deny them a seat, 2) seat them as is, or 3) use the results of a re-vote. A re-vote makes the most sense, unless you think that we can afford to write of these states in November. (25% of Florida’s Dems say they will either sit home or vote Republican if their votes aren’t included http://tinyurl.com/3c34fa ). If Clinton’s lead holds in Florida (and who knows if it will), she cuts Obama’s lead by another 300,000.

But “the popular vote doesn’t decide the nomination!” Yeah, but neither does the pledged delegate count. If there’s a split of the two, the superdelegates will have a hard time making the argument that the pledged delegate count should be determinative. Most people believe in the concept of “one person, one vote,” and (by more than 2-to-1) they believe the popular vote should determine the nominee. http://tinyurl.com/39wm8d Want to argue the delegate count is more representative of the “will of the people” than the popular vote, as Obama supporter Tom Daschle did last week on Meet the Press? I wouldn’t want to be on that side of the argument.

As far as the “Hillary has lost – she needs to quit” argument goes, it’s ridiculous. We’re more than 5 months away from the convention – a lifetime in politics. Think back 5 months ago – no one had even voted yet. If Obama has a popular vote and pledged delegate lead going into the convention, he will be the nominee – the party leaders aren’t suicidal. But in terms of PM’s “fraction of one percent” odds, well, RCP puts the odds at about 24.5% http://tinyurl.com/2cd544 .

PM - I know it’s convenient to be able to make stuff up, but it’s not an argument.

Coat Tails Anyone?

Yes PM, interludes are refreshing...But back to the business at hand. I recommend a good article in today's Huffington Post by Robert Creamer. Creamer defines what effect the Clinton's had and will have to the "down ballot" Democrats. Those are the state and US Congressmen and Senators, and ballet initiatives that fall below the Presidential candidate names on the ballet and are critical to helping the entire party to win over Congress in November. Of note, Barack campaigned for Bill Foster, a Democrat running in the 14th District of the Illinois Congressional delegation. This is the guy who beat the Republican for Denny Hastert's old seat. You may recall Hastert retired after exiting the Speaker of the House seat to Pelosi. This seat has been held by Republicans for decades. Foster won last week and credits Barack's positive pull for helping secure the win. This shows his power to win in marginal districts and states and should be considered closely when deciding who should win the Democratic nomination. Senator Ben Nelson (D-NE) is quoted in Bloomberg News today agreeing that several of Nebraska's old time Republican districts will likely support Obama this year and his coat tails will benefit those local seats.

Speaking of Coat Tails!!!

Obama's unfortunate association & (self proclaimed spiritual Mentor), with the Rev. Jeremiah Wright, has I think, made Obama UN-electable. The Media has finally done it's job. I don't know if this group is aware of what is going on across the internet & even the MSM. They are showing the Video's of Rev. Wright's sermons. It is the most hateful, prejudice, bias Rhetoric that you can imagine. Mr. Obama will not be able to side step this one with cute remarks. He's been a member for over 20 yrs of this man's church. Even if he goes on to beat Hillary, he's toast against MaCain. I want to thank the Media & you Over the top Obama suppoters for losing the Presidental election for us. Check out the Video's the Republicans will be running all year. This is what happens when we don't allow our canidates to be fully vetted. I hope you kids have learned something from this

Speaking of Rat Tails!!!

Here is one of the Repugnican trolls busy at work. He should be more worried about the hate mongers McCain has linked arms with. There's a plenty of videos showing his endorsers making vile hate-filled attacks on Roman Catholics, Jews, and calling for a holy war to exterminate all Muslims.

We need to insist that McCain release his tax returns. Could the reason he is refusing to release his tax returns be that they show financial links to these hate groups?

Riddle

Q: Why do some Clinton supporters sound like Republican drones?

A: Because they are Republican drones.

Answer

Oh c'mon. That's not fair. They're not all drones.

Riddle 2

Q: Why do some Clinton haters think they're funny?

A: Uhhhhhhhhmmmmmm .........

Hate

Every time I try to talk about Bush to my older brothers they accuse me of being a Bush hater. I say I don't know the man well enough to hate him, but am staunchly opposed to the dismantling of democracy as a way of solving the problems of existence. I know he is only the figurehead of a movement that wants to return to the simple life in a fascist system that doesn't need all the maintenance required of a democracy. I don't know Hillary well enough to hate her either, but when she identifies herself as an ally of the movement that Bush is figurehead of, and McCain is heir of, then I have to staunchly oppose her too. As for my brothers, I do know them well enough to hate them, but I don't. In order to truly hate someone, you have to love them first.

Read it again

I said "some" Clinton haters. I never argued that all of those who disagree with Hillary or those who support Obama are Clinton-haters. The vast majority are not. But there are a small (but vocal) portion who hate her and/or Bill. Take a look at a the language used on BF over the past few weeks: "feminazis", "Clintonistas", "Frau Hillary", "Billary", "bitch", "femme Bushivek in Liebermann's clothing", a "malicious creature masquerading as that woman," KKK acronyms, vampire analogies, etc. Hatred ..... Oh yeah.

In terms of needing to love someone before you hate them? I'd have to disagree. I would say I either hate Bush or I'm right on the edge. I would definitely use the word "hate" for Coulter, Limbaugh, Levin, etc.

Hate

My first vote was for McGovern in '72.. I have voted consistently for Democrats since that time; I've never considered anything else. There have been Democratic candidates I wasn't crazy about; there have been Democrats I voted for somewhat grudgingly. But Hillary Clinton is the first Democrat I despise..

Blood is up on BOTH sides

Greetings, Yman. I agree that there is plenty of vitriol coming from the Obama side of the fight - but it didn't appear in a vacuum, you know? It's in reaction to what we perceive to be plenty of venom coming from the Clinton camp. For me, I started to feel the bile really rise in my throat regarding Clinton when she mocked his message of hope in the Texas speech. I felt that Clinton was insulting ME - not Obama. What am I, an idiot that I'm easily bamboozled by some charlatan? I CHOSE Obama over Clinton for very sane, reasonable and serious reasons - not because I think he's cool. So, I felt insulted and I know lots of others felt the same way. Beyond the hurt feelings, it strikes me as poor judgment on your candidate's part. What kind of strategy is it to insult the people you will desperately need come November?

Agreed

Understandably, people get upset when they feel they're being insulted. I'm certain, however, that if you asked HC about her comments re: Obama's Texas speech, she would say they were not directed at Obama voters but were intended as criticism of what she perceives are "feel good" speeches without much substance. Most of Obama's speeches don't have a lot of policy details in them, and focus on more general messages of hope and change. Frankly, I would argue that's a good thing. I think it's not the proper venue for policy details and, perhaps even more importantly, it's just smart campaigning in general.

All that being said, a big part of the problem comes when people "read into" what the candidate says, or worse, what their supporters say. For example, a lot of Clinton supporters yelled "Sexism!" when Obama himself said “You challenge the status quo and suddenly the claws come out,” followed by “I understand that Senator Clinton, periodically when she’s feeling down, launches attacks as a way of trying to boost her appeal.” […]. Do I think Obama is a sexist? No. But look at the charges of "Racist!" that fly whenever someone makes any comment or observation about the role of race in the election. This was going on for weeks before the Ferraro comments (i.e. Rendell, BC's SC comments, the 3AM ad, the "darkened" Youtube video, etc.). "Racist" is arguably the worst pejorative you can call someone, and it's being hurled with reckless abandon.

Beyond that, people are going to have to come to grips with the fact that, in a campaign, there's going to be criticisms (even sharp criticisms) aimed at their candidate. I think that both sides should not try to read into those criticisms, but take them at face value.

BTW - I voted for Edwards, and I'm going to vote for whomever the Dem candidate is.

but people aren't rational!

I appreciate your comments. However, it doesn't really matter that people shouldn't take any of this personally, the fact is they do. Most people vote how they feel, not how they think. And she is engendering a lot of very bad feelings, which strikes me as foolish. I cannot think of a comparable episode when Obama personally mocked Clinton or her supporters. I also think you're being too charitable in saying Clinton wouldn't know she was being insulting. She's a very bright woman and all she'd have to do is think it through. The insult of Obama isn't "you give good speeches" - that's not an insult at all. The insult was "you ONLY give good speeches - and there's nothing to back it up." That's necessarily insulting to anybody buying the candidate - because we're buying nothing but speeches! It doesn't take much forethought to reason it through. She has continued to belittle and/or diminish him as some sort of empty suit which - again - is insulting to his supporters. On a practical front, I think Obama is simply the better candidate - which is why I chose him after Edwards dropped out. I believe he'll have longer coattails so we'll have a better shot at 60 seats in the senate. I like his 50 state strategy -both for campaigning and governing. Her negatives are so high - I don't like the idea of starting another administration that half the country actively despises. And I'm very loathe to have somebody so close to a previous administration back in office - the dynasty thing doesn't go away for me. Besides, I'm ready to toss out the entire DLC and get back to advancing LIBERAL politics again and I think we have a better shot at that with an Obama administration rather than another Clinton one.

Yman!

It is apparent from this post, that you can, in fact, be reasoned with. Just so you know, I considered supporting Hillary earlier on. We can't be all that far apart in our view of things. At least, none of us here are planning to vote Republican. I can understand why Hillary's supporters want her to stay in the race. My problem with her, is that the only way she seems to be able to beat Obama, is to go beyond the limits of decency... that is, typically, in a primary race, the candidates try not to destroy each other so that the other party benefits and ends up winning. I don't think she is trying to "steal" the election, but P.M. is correct that it is unlikely she can catch up to Obama in pledged delegates. What she'd have to do to make Obama that untouchable, would also destroy her own chances of winning. I don't think she is "racist", just willing to use race as a wedge. Again, this damages the party long-term. P.M. has just been trying to point out, that Hillary could have put the interests of the party above her own... she just can not do it. She has every right to stay in the race... the question is what price will we all be paying so that Hillary and Bill can avoid losing face? They've already missed so many chances to prove that they are better than the Clinton-haters thought. Instead, the Clintons are turning Democrats against them. We have Democrats saying to Republicans: "Now we get it. We see what you hated about these people."

See, this is the problem ....

... she hasn't gone beyond the limits of decency. You obviously disagree. My main points are; 1) before you make claims of racism against someone, particularly a Democrat with a long, positive history of working against racism, you better have very strong evidence, and 2) the race is so close that she should not drop out.

With regard to the issue of racism, the "pattern" of evidence is way beyond thin. Bill Clinton implying that Barack had an advantage in SC because of the large AA population? Please. Even The Nation magazine even called the SC primary "The Black Primary." http://tinyurl.com/2of2jh Likewise Ed Rendell pointing out that Barack was at a disadvantage in PA because of a large, conservative, white population. Is this such a big shock? The "darkening" of the Youtube ad, which happens whenever video gets compressed http://tinyurl.com/ypwyp3 . The claims by Orlando Patterson that the 3AM ad was playing to racial fears, which has now been easily and thoroughly debunked http://www.dailyhowler.com/dh031108.shtml. The subliminal messaging in that ad with the word "Good Night" on the child's pajamas. Come on! Hillary Clinton does not deserve to be slapped with the charge of racism for this non-existent "pattern." Neither do they deserve the charge of "race-baiting" or "using race as a wedge," which frankly, is barely a distinction. Ferraro's comments? Stupid. But Hillary didn't make them, and in fact, she repudiated them. We're going to impute comments made by supporters of a candidate to the candidate themselves? Even when the candidate rejects them? Well Obama better duck, because that's exactly what's about to happen with Rev. Wright and his controversial statements. Although BF is also blaming HC for this. How do they know? Look at the headlines from this morning. "One assumes" it. Of course one does.

With regard to dropping out of the race, she almost certainly cannot catch him in pledged delegates, but pledged delegates don't decide the nomination (see my post above). You claim this means that she could have put the party's interest above her own, but that she just can't do it. She's doing this merely to satisfy her own personal ambitions? Seriously? This is the exact argument that the right-wing machine used against Gore in 2000 to pressure him to concede before all the votes were counted. How could you POSSIBLY know this, without the ability to read her heart/mind? Well, what other possibility is ther? How about she's doing what her supporters expect her to do, which is to compete for the nomination and have their voices heard - as Gore should have done instead of prematurely conceding. Particularly since she's only behind by 1.4 to 2.6% percent of the vote, which lead will narrow further after PA.

"Racist", "race-baiter", or "driver of racial wedges"? No. Baseless, ridiculous, insulting charges. Quit? No thanks. I prefer someone who will fight. And as far as those Democrats who have decided to buy into the right-wing story of the Clintons (including adopting the right-wing language), if they're upset because they feel like Hillary should quit .......... Oh well.

That's the Problem

"I'm certain, however, that if you asked HC about her comments re: Obama's Texas speech, she would say they were not directed at Obama voters but were intended as criticism of what she perceives are "feel good" speeches without much substance."

I just don't, and never really have, felt that Clinton was genuine. She would say that, but I would not have any confidence that she's not saying what is politically expedient.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a New Yorker and she has been good for New York (barring that 'use of force vote' for which I will not forgive her).

But her I do not trust.

That IS the problem ...

If your argument is you won't believe what she says, or don't trust her ...... well, there's no way to prove that someone should be believed or trusted. Hell - given the non-stop barrage of attacks from the right-wing that she was subjected to for years, it's surprising her negatives aren't higher. Although I would point out that, in terms of the Texas comments, it makes no sense for her to insult Obama's supporters. She was trying to persuade them to vote for her.

I know there are those who believe she was never progressive enough to be considered a "true" progressive, but I'm more surprised by the "converts" - those people who say they believed in her, supported her, and voted for her in the past, only now they believe - even promote - all the accusations thrown at her (BTW - not suggesting I think you are one). Because she has (unfairly they argue) criticized Obama, she has, in the space of a few weeks or months, transformed into a lying, racist, conniving ___________(fill in the insult). Pretty amazing transformation in the matter of such a short period.

Haters?

Clinton haters? Gee. You sound like a winger complaining about Bush haters. If you don't support a Clinton you're a Clinton hater?

WTF?

Doh! I fed a troll! Dang!

No ...

Who said all people who don't support Clinton are Clinton-haters? Many are not. But when you compare "some" Clinton supporters to "Republican drones" and "trolls"? You might be a hater or not, but you're right at the edge.

BTW - Like you, I said "some."

Well deary me.

Well if your weren't talking to lil ol me, then I do so apologize. Sure.

Coulda swore you were, though.

As you said I said I said 'some' which doesn't put me on the edge at all. Since some of the drivel I read here demonizes Obama and treats Hillary as if she were some angel with a halo it's easy to assume the writer is just a winger troll.

They do have a vested interest in keeping 'us' at each other's throats. Improves their chances in Nov., it does.

Please provide a link

You said "some of the drivel I read here demonizes [misspelling in the original] Obama". Can you please provide a link to back this up. All of the left wing blogs seem to be on a daily anti-Hillary rant that make me fear for the future of the Democratic Party's hopes of re-taking the White House in November.

Why this guy

Heck, this story is not even about Hillary Clinton and yet the stupid writer manages to get a dig in about her in the headline. Tell me again why this seemingly newly-minted Republican hack, P M Carpenter, is invited to unload his anti-Clinton tirades on this once-welcome Buzzflash every single G D day. Does this idiot plan to eat crow with such fervor after she is the Democratic nominee for president? Or does he intend to continue to shill for John McCain on a daily basis even then? Or will Buzzflash have the good sense to can him soon?

Why this lie

Robertjones is an agent provocateur. A Repugnican elephant hiding in a donkey suit. One can tell just from the stench of peanuts wafting from his Orwellian double-speak. To be safe, I'll post a warning sign:

Warning! Repugnican Crossing

lifelong Democrat

Apparently askolnick does not like anyone who expresses an opinion within its earshot. For the record, I am a 67-year-old life long Democrat and have attended 2 national conventions as a delegate. I have withstood being call a dreaded Liberal and I can get past being called a Republican. But, here is a hint -- Republicans don't think, and my posts are thoughtful if nothing else. BTW, I have been an avid reader of P M Carpenter for quite some time and I am puzzled that his every column since he started writing for Buzzflash has been screaming anti-Hillary.

There are, at this point, only sightly more than 100 pledged delegates (out of 2025 needed for nomination) separating the two candidates and Obama leads in the popular vote by less than 1%. This is democracy in action folks. Let it play out. This is the first time in decades that states such as Wyoming and Mississippi, Indiana, and Pennsylvania have had any say in the nominee. It is usually all wrapped up by the California primary, with even huge states such as Texas being denied a role in selecting the nominee.

It's preposterous to suggest that Clinton should quit the race and hand over the mantle to her rival amidst such a hotly contested race. She trails only by about 100 (or so) delegates and is less than 1% behind in the popular vote. In fact, the simple truth is, come convention time, both candidates will fall far short of the 2025 delegates needed to ensnare the nomination

The Democratic Party has rules in place (since the 1980s) for just such an event. It is called the super delegates. According to Steven Grossman, former chair of the Democratic Party:

"But super delegates were not selected by the national party to be either potted plants or rubber stamps. We were selected because under party rules that have been in place for a generation, our party concluded that we had demonstrated the ability to act as stewards of the national party–and of the national interest. By dint of our experience in the community and our public service, we were adjudged fit to fulfill a moral responsibility to act in the best interest of the country as we saw it–and to be strong enough to withstand the criticisms of those who might object to the political impact of the independent conclusions we reached."

All of this means that Hillary Clinton may well be the nominee. It does the Party no go to have this constant anti-Hillary tirade going on in the blogs. It does tremendous damage to the eventual nominee -- whoever that may be. It has pitted Clinton supporters and Obama supporters against each other to the point that all the "cool" progressives are vowing not to vote for the other candidate. If we don't put a Democrat in the White House in November -- God help us.

Robertjones said:

"It's preposterous to suggest that Clinton should quit the race and hand over the mantle to her rival amidst such a hotly contested race. She trails only by about 100 (or so) delegates and is less than 1% behind in the popular vote. In fact, the simple truth is, come convention time, both candidates will fall far short of the 2025 delegates needed to ensnare the nomination."----------------------------------- The problem with this is: by the time this little Demo bus arrives in Denver---she will have caused a busted cam, four flat tires and a thrown rod------all so's she can save a gallon of gas----while never taking her eyes out of the vanity mirror the whole, long, dismal ride! Foolish consistency is the......well, you'e heard it before.

Nice try

Robertjones, nice try at sounding like a reasonable, long-time Democrat. Your first post, however, tipped your hand:

"Tell me again why this seemingly newly-minted Republican hack, P M Carpenter, is invited to unload his anti-Clinton tirades on this once-welcome Buzzflash every single G D day. Does this idiot plan to eat crow with such fervor after she is the Democratic nominee for president? Or does he intend to continue to shill for John McCain on a daily basis even then? Or will Buzzflash have the good sense to can him soon?


This attack sounds far more like it was written by a hate-filled detractor than an "avid reader of P.M. Carpenter.

"It does the Party no go to have this constant anti-Hillary tirade going on in the blogs. It does tremendous damage to the eventual nominee -- whoever that may be."

What does the Party no good is to have the Clinton campaign destroying the party with sleazy Rove tactics. Rather than denounce Clinton's repugnant conduct, Robertjones prefers to condemn those who dare protest.

That is not a sign of a life-long Democrat.

Phewwww!!!! ......

Thanks, Askolnick! Thank goodness you're able to spot those sneaky, Repugnican trolls ... and what would we do without your signs? I feel safer already!

for the record...

isn't 'he' a 'she?'

P M Capenter gender

For the record, he appears to be a he in this picture from his old column website. But, you be the judge if such is necessary to try and dbunk my comments. http://pmcarpenter.blogs.com/about.html

OK, I'll take the troll bait

PM Carpenter is one of the few commentators who consistently has something intelligent to say about politics. He's hardly a Republican and he was probably selected by BuzzFlash precisely because he is not a hack. It's unfortunate that Hillary has inspired a war within the Democratic party, but in one sense it could be described as a war for the soul of the Democratic Party. Between Hillary, the DLC and AIPAC we are almost guaranteed a continuation of the worst BS of the Bush Administration. They are going to fight to the death, because if they can't steal this nomination they are history. It's not a matter of eating crow if she captures the nomination. Too many of us are no longer willing to hold our noses and vote for someone who is not on our side.

If you turned down your dial, you may be heard...

...think about it.

Republican troll

This is not a Banana Republican website. No one here is stupid enough to believe that, of the two candidates, Obama would be the more Banana Republican one. Hillary Clinton is the candidate who votes for attacking Iraq and now attacking Iran. Hillary Clinton is the one who votes for dropping cluster bombs on civilians. Hillary Clinton is the one who meets with Rupert Murdoch and plays nice with the fascist mainstream media and there is nothing you can do to convince people here otherwise because we are liberal, progressive and intelligent. We cannot be programmed like stupid Banana Republicans. Sorry. You will have to make do in your minority Banana Republican Party for at least the next 40 years and hopefully like your fascist forebears, indefinately.

Obama on the war

Obama was not even in the Senate when the vote was taken that Bush used to invade Iraq. And the Senators were given bogus information (and lots more of it -- even secret papers) prior to the vote. With Joe Lieberman as his chosen Senate mentor, it is doubtful that Obama would have been one of the few who voted No -- as he now claims. And Obama has spoken to the Foreign Relations Council (a right-wing think tank) in support of the war and many of Bush's other misguided policies since he has been in the Senate. And, he has voted every time to provide the money to continue the war since he has been in the Senate. So, don't believe everything you think you know about either of these candidates.

We have to be able to withstand democracy in action (as we are now seeing) and still support our candidate in November. Calm down and let it play out, folks.

Big Bad Obama

What Robertjones forgot to say is that Big Bad Obama also voted to deprive children from receiving toylike cluster bomblets. Clinton voted with the Republicans to continue dropping these fun toys on civilian populations.

Hillary want kids to go "Boom!" Obama no want kids to have fun.

Hillary vote to give American boys and girls chance to play soldier in Iraq. Obama speak out against war. He try to deprive U.S. soldiers of fun. Obama, no fun.

Me vote Clinton.

Hillary was wrong.....or lazy

Senator Bob Graham read the NIE report and knew Bush's claims regarding Saddam were bogus.

From today's Huffington post article:

Graham, who headed the Senate Intelligence Committee in the run up to Iraq, famously declared his war opposition after reading the National Intelligence Estimate, a document he thought did not make the case (and one that Sen. Hillary Clinton has acknowledged not reading). That aside, Graham noted that "experience" in and of itself was not a prerequisite for becoming leader of America's armed forces.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/03/14/bob-graham-iraq-war-vote_n_91524.html

Although urged by Graham to read the full NIE, Clinton read the Executive Summary.

Akaka (D-HI) Bingaman (D-NM) Boxer (D-CA) Byrd (D-WV) Chafee (R-RI) Conrad (D-ND) Corzine (D-NJ) Dayton (D-MN) Durbin (D-IL) Feingold (D-WI) Graham (D-FL) Inouye (D-HI) Jeffords (I-VT) Kennedy (D-MA) Leahy (D-VT) Levin (D-MI) Mikulski (D-MD) Murray (D-WA) Reed (D-RI) Sarbanes (D-MD) Stabenow (D-MI) Wellstone (D-MN) Wyden (D-OR)

all voted no.

"We've got the best two family system of government in the world." ---Mark Donnelly

Hitler never had more than 30% support of German people

Fugazi, You need to remember that Dumbyass controls the mass media, the military, FBI, CIA, NSA, Attorney General Office and the Supreme Court. Needless to say, Hitler never had more than 30% support of the German people, but like Dumbyass, he controlled the mass media, the military, Gestapo, Attorney General Office and the Supreme Court. Get the picture? The Banana Republicans will have the majority say in this country so long as we don't yank control away from these sleazeballs. Hillbilly d.b.a. Hillary is definitely not one of us. If she were, she wouldn't use the sleazoid tactics she used against Obama and be such a staunch supporter of Dumbyass' Follies.