The Unavoidable Obsession with Hillary Clinton's Dead End
THE FIFTH COLUMNIST by P.M. Carpenter
The exposed hobbies of Eliot Spitzer served at least as a musical rest in our national cacophony of the quixotic. For 48 hours we collectively labored to imagine, in a kind of cost-benefit thought experiment, the professional joys of a $5,500-an-hour working girl versus the sure disappointment of a mere $3,500 expended.
Alas I, for one, was unsuccessful in this experiment, in view of the carnal reality that the essentials are generally available in most any downtown for about 20 bucks.
Nevertheless underneath it all and now back on top with a vengeance is the political news that is virtually all race, gender, disputatious Democrats, apologies, race, gender, race, resignations, race and disputatious Democrats, rather than what lies ahead. Thank you, Eliot, for the respite, however brief -- yet we're back to the cacophony.
Some say the open disputes are a good thing; that it's so nice we can finally have this much-needed "national debate," whatever the hell that means, about race and gender. But it seems to me there's something else a trifle more pressing right now, like averting another four catastrophic years of neoconservative nincompoopism and domestic idleness.
After all, it's not that racial and gendered divisions won't still be with us in 2009. How about we just pick up then where we should leave off now, only to leave it again in 2010 as unsettled as it has been for hundreds of years in this nation. Other duty calls.
Yet the execution of that duty is getting shoved aside as we unprofitably wallow in the tactical fascinations of a preposterously quixotic campaign. It's all race, all gender, all disputatiousness and all Hillary as we follow with immoderate interest her newest inventions in trying to capture the uncapturable, to hoodwink the unhoodwinkable, to bamboozle the unbamboozable.
The numbers shall obtain, be they Obama's lead in pledged delegates, the popular will, number of states won or his consistent polling advantage against John McCain, not to mention all of these in one basket. Hence the unbamboozable -- the amassing alliance of superdelegates needed to nail this thing down -- will, in the long run, not be deterred. Just examine the numbers and you'll see that this race was effectively over weeks ago.
But there's another "yet," and it is this: There are in politics, as in physics, no absolutes. So there's that fraction of a one-percent chance that Hillary could, after all, pull some indiscernible rabbit out of some miraculous hat and beat the unbeatable odds. Gov. Spitzer may have a better chance of an evening out alone this week, but the slimmest of a possibility is nevertheless there.
So we wallow in the tactical fascinations, in all the inventiveness of Hillary's trying; for the reigning news coverage makes the virtually impossible seem almost plausible. It's a great story; a real horse race, right? Well, it is, but only if one perishes the numbers -- indeed, perishes the reality of it all.
But like in testing a sore neck -- something else we know will eventually go away on its own accord -- we can't help ourselves. We get sucked into this wasteful obsession because of Hillary's sheer pluckiness. Which is, in a word, a sight -- one that some root on for understandable reasons, and others try their best to bring into realistic focus with reams of corrective clarity.
But her damn-the-insurmountable-odds pluckiness just won't go away, so neither will our obsession. Meanwhile, however, the airing of far more profitable analyses suffers -- but this too is understandable, since there's that nagging sore neck to attend to.
For example I have wanted to cast a thought or two about this piece that appeared in the New York Times: "On Signature Issues, McCain Has Shown Some Inconsistencies in the Senate." The headline is vastly charitable, but for now the more important point is that the piece appeared 11 days ago, and I have yet the time to plumb in writing its progressively profitable depths.
Eleven days consumed by wasteful infighting, stomping on fires and indulging in our national obsession with Hillary's Hail Maryisms. Because whatever else it is, it's news, the chief topic of conversation and that's what topical writers write about.
And it's consuming us all, to John McCain's immense benefit.
As my inbox would prove, more than a few in Hillary's camp have defensively protested that she has the right to persist. Their doing so befuddles the bejesus out of me. Of course she has the right to persist. No one questions that.
The far more pertinent question is, at what cost-benefit? And that's as mystifying as the unimaginably delectable difference between a $5,500 roll in the hay and a miserly $3,500 good time.
Please respond to the commentary by leaving comments below and sharing them with the BuzzFlash community. For personal questions or comments you can contact P.M. at
fifthcolumnistmail@gmail.comTHE FIFTH COLUMNIST by P.M. Carpenter
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a long-term perspective
The mark of McCain
pgbowden, I think your analysis is dead on. My only disagreement is with your assumption that the people posting many of the Clinton apologetics and attacks on Obama are progressives. No one who justifies Clinton's race baiting can possibly be a progressive. Repugnican trolls are at work here. And the lasting marks we should most worry about are those being made by the Clinton slime machine. Their Rovian tactics will be a blot on Democrats for years to come.
You can date and love her but please don't marry her
Think it’s over, PM? Think again …
So PM thinks that Hillary needs to quit because “there's (only) that fraction of a one-percent chance that Hillary could, after all, pull some indiscernible rabbit out of some miraculous hat and beat the unbeatable odds.” Really? “A fraction of one percent?” How does he know this? Easy …. He just makes it up.
This is an argument that’s been repeatedly raised by SOME Obama supporters for weeks. There's no way she can win without "stealing" the election. He’s ahead, it’s over, time to quit. Only it’s not. There are still millions of voters in Pennsylvania, Guam, North Carolina, Indiana, West Virginia, Oregon, Kentucky, Montana, South Dakota, and Puerto Rico who would still like to be heard, let alone a re-vote in Florida or Michigan.
Will Obama have the lead in pledged delegates going into the convention? Almost certainly. Will he have a popular vote lead as he does now? It’s possible, maybe even probable, but far from certain. Why? Look at the numbers. Right now Obama leads in the popular vote by @700,000 votes. PA is coming up, and right now Hillary’s lead is 16% (RCP poll avg.). In Ohio alone (a smaller state than PA) she won by 10.4% and cut Obama’s lead by 230,0000. Obama’s up by 8.2% in NC (a smaller state), but there’s no data for Indiana or the other states yet. More importantly, Florida and Michigan are still hanging. “But the rules say they don’t count!” Actually, the rules say the convention committee can either: 1) deny them a seat, 2) seat them as is, or 3) use the results of a re-vote. A re-vote makes the most sense, unless you think that we can afford to write of these states in November. (25% of Florida’s Dems say they will either sit home or vote Republican if their votes aren’t included http://tinyurl.com/3c34fa ). If Clinton’s lead holds in Florida (and who knows if it will), she cuts Obama’s lead by another 300,000.
But “the popular vote doesn’t decide the nomination!” Yeah, but neither does the pledged delegate count. If there’s a split of the two, the superdelegates will have a hard time making the argument that the pledged delegate count should be determinative. Most people believe in the concept of “one person, one vote,” and (by more than 2-to-1) they believe the popular vote should determine the nominee. http://tinyurl.com/39wm8d Want to argue the delegate count is more representative of the “will of the people” than the popular vote, as Obama supporter Tom Daschle did last week on Meet the Press? I wouldn’t want to be on that side of the argument.
As far as the “Hillary has lost – she needs to quit” argument goes, it’s ridiculous. We’re more than 5 months away from the convention – a lifetime in politics. Think back 5 months ago – no one had even voted yet. If Obama has a popular vote and pledged delegate lead going into the convention, he will be the nominee – the party leaders aren’t suicidal. But in terms of PM’s “fraction of one percent” odds, well, RCP puts the odds at about 24.5% http://tinyurl.com/2cd544 .
PM - I know it’s convenient to be able to make stuff up, but it’s not an argument.
Coat Tails Anyone?
Speaking of Coat Tails!!!
Speaking of Rat Tails!!!
Here is one of the Repugnican trolls busy at work. He should be more worried about the hate mongers McCain has linked arms with. There's a plenty of videos showing his endorsers making vile hate-filled attacks on Roman Catholics, Jews, and calling for a holy war to exterminate all Muslims.
We need to insist that McCain release his tax returns. Could the reason he is refusing to release his tax returns be that they show financial links to these hate groups?
Riddle
Q: Why do some Clinton supporters sound like Republican drones?
A: Because they are Republican drones.
Answer
Riddle 2
Q: Why do some Clinton haters think they're funny?
A: Uhhhhhhhhmmmmmm .........
Hate
Read it again
I said "some" Clinton haters. I never argued that all of those who disagree with Hillary or those who support Obama are Clinton-haters. The vast majority are not. But there are a small (but vocal) portion who hate her and/or Bill. Take a look at a the language used on BF over the past few weeks: "feminazis", "Clintonistas", "Frau Hillary", "Billary", "bitch", "femme Bushivek in Liebermann's clothing", a "malicious creature masquerading as that woman," KKK acronyms, vampire analogies, etc. Hatred ..... Oh yeah.
In terms of needing to love someone before you hate them? I'd have to disagree. I would say I either hate Bush or I'm right on the edge. I would definitely use the word "hate" for Coulter, Limbaugh, Levin, etc.
Hate
Blood is up on BOTH sides
Agreed
Understandably, people get upset when they feel they're being insulted. I'm certain, however, that if you asked HC about her comments re: Obama's Texas speech, she would say they were not directed at Obama voters but were intended as criticism of what she perceives are "feel good" speeches without much substance. Most of Obama's speeches don't have a lot of policy details in them, and focus on more general messages of hope and change. Frankly, I would argue that's a good thing. I think it's not the proper venue for policy details and, perhaps even more importantly, it's just smart campaigning in general.
All that being said, a big part of the problem comes when people "read into" what the candidate says, or worse, what their supporters say. For example, a lot of Clinton supporters yelled "Sexism!" when Obama himself said “You challenge the status quo and suddenly the claws come out,” followed by “I understand that Senator Clinton, periodically when she’s feeling down, launches attacks as a way of trying to boost her appeal.” […]. Do I think Obama is a sexist? No. But look at the charges of "Racist!" that fly whenever someone makes any comment or observation about the role of race in the election. This was going on for weeks before the Ferraro comments (i.e. Rendell, BC's SC comments, the 3AM ad, the "darkened" Youtube video, etc.). "Racist" is arguably the worst pejorative you can call someone, and it's being hurled with reckless abandon.
Beyond that, people are going to have to come to grips with the fact that, in a campaign, there's going to be criticisms (even sharp criticisms) aimed at their candidate. I think that both sides should not try to read into those criticisms, but take them at face value.
BTW - I voted for Edwards, and I'm going to vote for whomever the Dem candidate is.
but people aren't rational!
Yman!
See, this is the problem ....
... she hasn't gone beyond the limits of decency. You obviously disagree. My main points are; 1) before you make claims of racism against someone, particularly a Democrat with a long, positive history of working against racism, you better have very strong evidence, and 2) the race is so close that she should not drop out.
With regard to the issue of racism, the "pattern" of evidence is way beyond thin. Bill Clinton implying that Barack had an advantage in SC because of the large AA population? Please. Even The Nation magazine even called the SC primary "The Black Primary." http://tinyurl.com/2of2jh Likewise Ed Rendell pointing out that Barack was at a disadvantage in PA because of a large, conservative, white population. Is this such a big shock? The "darkening" of the Youtube ad, which happens whenever video gets compressed http://tinyurl.com/ypwyp3 . The claims by Orlando Patterson that the 3AM ad was playing to racial fears, which has now been easily and thoroughly debunked http://www.dailyhowler.com/dh031108.shtml. The subliminal messaging in that ad with the word "Good Night" on the child's pajamas. Come on! Hillary Clinton does not deserve to be slapped with the charge of racism for this non-existent "pattern." Neither do they deserve the charge of "race-baiting" or "using race as a wedge," which frankly, is barely a distinction. Ferraro's comments? Stupid. But Hillary didn't make them, and in fact, she repudiated them. We're going to impute comments made by supporters of a candidate to the candidate themselves? Even when the candidate rejects them? Well Obama better duck, because that's exactly what's about to happen with Rev. Wright and his controversial statements. Although BF is also blaming HC for this. How do they know? Look at the headlines from this morning. "One assumes" it. Of course one does.
With regard to dropping out of the race, she almost certainly cannot catch him in pledged delegates, but pledged delegates don't decide the nomination (see my post above). You claim this means that she could have put the party's interest above her own, but that she just can't do it. She's doing this merely to satisfy her own personal ambitions? Seriously? This is the exact argument that the right-wing machine used against Gore in 2000 to pressure him to concede before all the votes were counted. How could you POSSIBLY know this, without the ability to read her heart/mind? Well, what other possibility is ther? How about she's doing what her supporters expect her to do, which is to compete for the nomination and have their voices heard - as Gore should have done instead of prematurely conceding. Particularly since she's only behind by 1.4 to 2.6% percent of the vote, which lead will narrow further after PA.
"Racist", "race-baiter", or "driver of racial wedges"? No. Baseless, ridiculous, insulting charges. Quit? No thanks. I prefer someone who will fight. And as far as those Democrats who have decided to buy into the right-wing story of the Clintons (including adopting the right-wing language), if they're upset because they feel like Hillary should quit .......... Oh well.
That's the Problem
"I'm certain, however, that if you asked HC about her comments re: Obama's Texas speech, she would say they were not directed at Obama voters but were intended as criticism of what she perceives are "feel good" speeches without much substance."
I just don't, and never really have, felt that Clinton was genuine. She would say that, but I would not have any confidence that she's not saying what is politically expedient.
Don't get me wrong, I'm a New Yorker and she has been good for New York (barring that 'use of force vote' for which I will not forgive her).
But her I do not trust.
That IS the problem ...
If your argument is you won't believe what she says, or don't trust her ...... well, there's no way to prove that someone should be believed or trusted. Hell - given the non-stop barrage of attacks from the right-wing that she was subjected to for years, it's surprising her negatives aren't higher. Although I would point out that, in terms of the Texas comments, it makes no sense for her to insult Obama's supporters. She was trying to persuade them to vote for her.
I know there are those who believe she was never progressive enough to be considered a "true" progressive, but I'm more surprised by the "converts" - those people who say they believed in her, supported her, and voted for her in the past, only now they believe - even promote - all the accusations thrown at her (BTW - not suggesting I think you are one). Because she has (unfairly they argue) criticized Obama, she has, in the space of a few weeks or months, transformed into a lying, racist, conniving ___________(fill in the insult). Pretty amazing transformation in the matter of such a short period.
Haters?
Clinton haters? Gee. You sound like a winger complaining about Bush haters. If you don't support a Clinton you're a Clinton hater?
WTF?
Doh! I fed a troll! Dang!
No ...
Who said all people who don't support Clinton are Clinton-haters? Many are not. But when you compare "some" Clinton supporters to "Republican drones" and "trolls"? You might be a hater or not, but you're right at the edge.
BTW - Like you, I said "some."
Well deary me.
Well if your weren't talking to lil ol me, then I do so apologize. Sure.
Coulda swore you were, though.
As you said I said I said 'some' which doesn't put me on the edge at all. Since some of the drivel I read here demonizes Obama and treats Hillary as if she were some angel with a halo it's easy to assume the writer is just a winger troll.
They do have a vested interest in keeping 'us' at each other's throats. Improves their chances in Nov., it does.
Please provide a link
Why this guy
Why this lie
lifelong Democrat
There are, at this point, only sightly more than 100 pledged delegates (out of 2025 needed for nomination) separating the two candidates and Obama leads in the popular vote by less than 1%. This is democracy in action folks. Let it play out. This is the first time in decades that states such as Wyoming and Mississippi, Indiana, and Pennsylvania have had any say in the nominee. It is usually all wrapped up by the California primary, with even huge states such as Texas being denied a role in selecting the nominee.
It's preposterous to suggest that Clinton should quit the race and hand over the mantle to her rival amidst such a hotly contested race. She trails only by about 100 (or so) delegates and is less than 1% behind in the popular vote. In fact, the simple truth is, come convention time, both candidates will fall far short of the 2025 delegates needed to ensnare the nomination
The Democratic Party has rules in place (since the 1980s) for just such an event. It is called the super delegates. According to Steven Grossman, former chair of the Democratic Party:
"But super delegates were not selected by the national party to be either potted plants or rubber stamps. We were selected because under party rules that have been in place for a generation, our party concluded that we had demonstrated the ability to act as stewards of the national party–and of the national interest. By dint of our experience in the community and our public service, we were adjudged fit to fulfill a moral responsibility to act in the best interest of the country as we saw it–and to be strong enough to withstand the criticisms of those who might object to the political impact of the independent conclusions we reached."
All of this means that Hillary Clinton may well be the nominee. It does the Party no go to have this constant anti-Hillary tirade going on in the blogs. It does tremendous damage to the eventual nominee -- whoever that may be. It has pitted Clinton supporters and Obama supporters against each other to the point that all the "cool" progressives are vowing not to vote for the other candidate. If we don't put a Democrat in the White House in November -- God help us.
Robertjones said:
Nice try
"Tell me again why this seemingly newly-minted Republican hack, P M Carpenter, is invited to unload his anti-Clinton tirades on this once-welcome Buzzflash every single G D day. Does this idiot plan to eat crow with such fervor after she is the Democratic nominee for president? Or does he intend to continue to shill for John McCain on a daily basis even then? Or will Buzzflash have the good sense to can him soon?
This attack sounds far more like it was written by a hate-filled detractor than an "avid reader of P.M. Carpenter.
"It does the Party no go to have this constant anti-Hillary tirade going on in the blogs. It does tremendous damage to the eventual nominee -- whoever that may be."
What does the Party no good is to have the Clinton campaign destroying the party with sleazy Rove tactics. Rather than denounce Clinton's repugnant conduct, Robertjones prefers to condemn those who dare protest.
That is not a sign of a life-long Democrat.
Phewwww!!!! ......
Thanks, Askolnick! Thank goodness you're able to spot those sneaky, Repugnican trolls ... and what would we do without your signs? I feel safer already!
for the record...
P M Capenter gender
OK, I'll take the troll bait
If you turned down your dial, you may be heard...
Republican troll
Obama on the war
We have to be able to withstand democracy in action (as we are now seeing) and still support our candidate in November. Calm down and let it play out, folks.
Big Bad Obama
What Robertjones forgot to say is that Big Bad Obama also voted to deprive children from receiving toylike cluster bomblets. Clinton voted with the Republicans to continue dropping these fun toys on civilian populations.
Hillary want kids to go "Boom!" Obama no want kids to have fun.
Hillary vote to give American boys and girls chance to play soldier in Iraq. Obama speak out against war. He try to deprive U.S. soldiers of fun. Obama, no fun.
Me vote Clinton.
Hillary was wrong.....or lazy
From today's Huffington post article:
Graham, who headed the Senate Intelligence Committee in the run up to Iraq, famously declared his war opposition after reading the National Intelligence Estimate, a document he thought did not make the case (and one that Sen. Hillary Clinton has acknowledged not reading). That aside, Graham noted that "experience" in and of itself was not a prerequisite for becoming leader of America's armed forces.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/03/14/bob-graham-iraq-war-vote_n_91524.html
Although urged by Graham to read the full NIE, Clinton read the Executive Summary.
Akaka (D-HI) Bingaman (D-NM) Boxer (D-CA) Byrd (D-WV) Chafee (R-RI) Conrad (D-ND) Corzine (D-NJ) Dayton (D-MN) Durbin (D-IL) Feingold (D-WI) Graham (D-FL) Inouye (D-HI) Jeffords (I-VT) Kennedy (D-MA) Leahy (D-VT) Levin (D-MI) Mikulski (D-MD) Murray (D-WA) Reed (D-RI) Sarbanes (D-MD) Stabenow (D-MI) Wellstone (D-MN) Wyden (D-OR)
all voted no.
"We've got the best two family system of government in the world." ---Mark Donnelly
Hitler never had more than 30% support of German people