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Should We Even Bother with Health Care Legislation if There Is No Government Option?

A BUZZFLASH DISCUSSION
by Chad Rubel

President Obama says we will get health care legislation by the end of the year. He keeps saying it. The president said it again this morning to Diane Sawyer on "Good Morning America."

"We're gonna get it done. So, I won't engage in hypotheticals in which we don't. And the reason it's gonna get done is because the American people understand it has to get done. ... Every town I visit, every city I go, people ask me, ... ‘Why is it that my premiums have gone up-- two, three times in the last nine, 10 years?' ... I'm confident that if everybody puts their minds to it, we can get it done."

Obama was talking with Sawyer as part of the daylong ABC visit to the White House. The trip commences tonight with a special on health care from the White House at 10 p.m. EDT with more coverage on "Nightline."

Normally, progressives would be enthused over the prospect of health care legislation/reform. But the idea of legislation that is crummy might indeed be a worse prospect than the status quo, as horrible as that is to imagine.

And a health care legislation bill without a government option is not something to seriously consider, no matter how much of a "compromise" it might be to some.

Would you protest such a bill if it didn't require at least a government public option? Hopefully, the process won't come to that point. But naivete can't rule the day. Those who want true health care reform have to prepare for that possibility.

This prime-time broadcast, and subsequent late-night coverage, should be an important time to give national attention to a more progressive solution. But there is legitimate fear that single-payer or even a public option will get short shrift. After all, Charlie Gibson and Diane Sawyer are at the controls.

Attendees for the discussion will be hand-picked by ABC News. ABC News Senior Vice President Kerry Smith says "ABC News alone will select those who will be in the audience asking questions of the president."

While ABC's attempts are bold by U.S. network standards, quite frankly, health care is so important that three hours of prime time on a summer evening by all the major networks (and FOX) would be a tiny price to pay.

President Obama spoke passionately at yesterday's press conference of the stories he has heard along the trail of horrible health care disasters. Stories that would be solved by single-payer no matter the dislike he seems to have for that solution. These are the same stories that would be helped by a public option.

But we haven't seen a lot of political capital being spent by the 44th president, no bold steps being taken. Health care reform requires boldness not seen on the political landscape since the passage of the Civil Rights Act.

If Congress can't stand up to the insurance companies and other monsters in the way, and Obama won't spend the political capital to veto a bill without at least a public option, what should be the reaction from progressives? If Congress passes a bill without a public option, and Obama seems ready to sign it, what should progressives do?

Let us know what you think in the comments section below.

A BUZZFLASH DISCUSSION




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Public Option for Health Care

One thing that amazes me is that people talk about single-payor, government-run health care as if it will be a panacea for all that ails health care. We can look at other countries that have such a system to see what it is really like. Ultimately, such a system does solve one major problem that the U.S. has...not everyone has insurance. All citizens, regardless of their station in life, are given equal access to health care under a single-payor system. But, the question is, is it equally good or equally bad health care? I think the real answer is...it depends on what type of health care is being sought. Generally, from my understanding, primary care (colds, check-ups etc.) is fairly available in these countries. However, the more advanced the need, the more limited the coverage, and the longer the wait, and the less access to more advanced types of diagnostic equipment and other cutting edge treatments. Queen Elizabeth Hospital in London, for example, has no Cat-Scan, no MRI machine...they have only one x-ray machine bought in 1971! Let's be realistic....single-payor may ulitimately be the only way to control health care costs....but it will do it, as in other countries, by controlling access to health care, in other words, rationing health care. Yes, there are real problems with our current system...high cost, the uninsured, etc., but the great majority of us that have health insurance have much better access to advanced healthcare techniques than do citizens of England, Australia, Canada, etc. There is constant pressure on governments in these countries to increase benefits under government health care by their citizens, so costs are growing under these single-payor systems as well, just not quite as fast as with our system. I would prefer that we try to fashion a more uniquely American system, over time, attempting to fix what is broken and keeping what we like about our system, before we step into a single-payor system. It will mean higher taxes, but then single payor will mean higher taxes as well. And to try to paint a picture that single-payor is some sort of heaven-sent solution with no huge downside is like putting fingernail polish on a pig.

Welcome Faux News

The Queen Elizabeth Hospital in London is moth-balled. If there's a 1971 X-ray machine there I guess it's because it wasn't worth moving to the new facility.

An $83 million astroturf campaign to deny us Single Payer and that's the best argument you can come up with?

Moth balls?

Is Mike 5000 saying that advanced diagnostic tools, such as cat-scans and MRI's are as available in Great Britain as they are in the U.S? I suggest that if you or one of your family gets sick (I hope you don't, by the way)that you go to England for your treatment, and see how happy you are with single-payor health coverage. Or go to Canada. The City of Wichita, Kansas (pop about 340,000) has more MRI imagers than does the city of Toronto (pop around 4,000,000.) Maybe Canada has a bunch of MRI's in reserve, but they've just been "moth-balled." I certainly don't want to "deny" you single-payor. Problem is, if you get it, all the rest of us have to suffer along with you. If single-payor was such a popular idea in this country, I assure you that our president would be rooting for it, because he has stated, when he was just a senator, that he is in favor of it, but he knew that the support for that concept was not out there in the country today. Also, what the heck is an "$83 dollar astroturf campaign?" I think the Astroturf product was "moth-balled" years ago.

Astroturf

That's an $83 million astroturf campaign to undermine support for Single Payer. You're off by a factor of a million, only slightly worse than the rest of your non-facts.

Your phoney fear-mongering is so 1993.

The majority of Americans want Single Payer. We need it and we deserve it. Nothing less.

Health Care

PC If a so-called "reform" bill is passed without a public option, Obama should veto it. It would not be real reform. It would be worse than nothing at all. Of course, the best bill would be for single-payer. The profit motive in health care must be eliminated for there to be real reform. Health care is a right for all, not a privilege for the rich and congress.

Health Care

The usual meaningless (but beautifully articulated) blah, blah from President Obama. Were in that speech is anthing but a generality (We will get it done, indeed) what is IT? More of the same? Seems so. The public is behind single payer in the high percentages; we have a Democratic Senate (except the the Blue Dogs - read "Republican in sheeps's clothing) and a Democratic President! This should be a no-brainer. When you couple health care in the same sentence with profit it's by it's very nature BAD! Profit from health care? The only way is to constantly deny claims. Like the lady whose face was ripped off by a bear and has had many of her treatments denied!!! So Obama puts out bland platitudes instead of speaking out courageously about the status quo in STRONG, SPECIFIC TERMS! What a disappointment he's turning out to be!!

"The public is behind" - BS

"The public is behind" - BS - that isnt true at all. You are mixing up poll results so as to make a claim that is absolutely false. The public is overwhelmingly swayed by the socialism mantra - there is very weak support for single payer. There IS strong public support for "health care to be fixed". Why do you say things that you really ought to know are absolutely not true.

I call your Obamabot BS

Although a majority of Americans may not know the labels, when various plans are described the majority of survey respondents state their preference for the description of Single Payer.

We deserve Single Payer. Nothing less.

Don't have time for details

Don't have time for details due to spending 3 hours to find my driver's license this evening! So I'll just summarize:

Single Payer: The only reasonable policy. It's so obvious that it hits you over the head while announcing that it's the only solution.

Mandate + Public Option: very right wing policy, and a very regressive tax, and yes, those two descriptives do commonly go together.

Mandate + No Public Option: So far to the right and so extremely regressive a tax that it is partial slavery for all practical purposes. People in general, and especially lower income people, will be slaves to the private health insurance companies.

Dont think Single Payer isnt

Dont think Single Payer isnt as vulnerable to compromise as a public option is. The insurance companies have guys in suits who get paid to dream up ways to water something down and compromise it. "The only reasonable policy" - how? There are 450 potential variations of your "only" policy - you know the devil is in the details. Sure it is possible for a public option to be compromised - yet here you are anyway insisting that the public option is "very right wing" - how do you know? Folks, I tell you, these anti public option people here are spouting things they dont know, spouting off mis-information, saying things like dumping ground which is entirely an assumption at this point. Dig the fact that what you are spouting on behalf of the opponents of a public option - is just claims - just claims.

It's not so much that the

It's not so much that the "public option" health care delivery option is right wing. It's that the forcing people to pay for it as a separate tax, instead of via general revenues, that is right wing. If you don't know what a regressive tax is, I don't have the time to teach you.

If this passes and lower income people start paying large health insurance bills, a good chunk of them are going to end up homeless at one time or another, which will be devastating to their health.

Also though, there is no doubt that any public option will fail. Any insurance exec with half a brain can tell you that. The great majority of the high cost patients will end up in the public option, while the relatively inexpensive ones will be clients of the private insurance companies. One of many examples of this is Massachusetts.

We have to get it done!

I have multiple medical problems and my husband is diabetic. A private plan is out of the question, and his employer is a small business that does not offer insurance. We lost what coverage we had when I lost my civil service job over three years ago. We have to get it done.

Was it a dream or was it real?

"....what should progressives do?"

Or, anyone?

I think we will get a new health insurance law from Congress and the President that does NOT provide for a single payer or even a viable "public option". We may also get new regressive taxes, a mandatory enrollment requirement for working stiffs with exceptions for the special people, and in the end less care for more dollars.

The industry will get a guaranteed cash flow, guarnateed profits and more excuses to gold plate executive pay packages.

If that occurs, Obama has one and only one option:

VETO!

Then try again.

If, at the end of four years, WE do not have a viable health CARE bill, I am afraid it is proof we no longer have a democracy either. Just a corporate beast that must be appeased at any cost.

I don't know what progressives are going to do, but for me I will give up on America, forever. The dream was only that. A dream.

Do you honestly believe ...

... there's the slightest chance that he would veto such a bill?

Obama's a huge disappointment ...

He'd probably go ahead and sign a bill like the one described in the first comment (no public option, worse than what we've got now). Liberals must work to expose Blue Dogs, and defeat them at the polls, at all costs, even if it means Republicans get elected in their places ... no one will take us seriously until it's bad news to ignore us.

We must have health care reform this year,

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government option

Yes, I would protest a bill with no government option that is effective Day 1;and I am continuing to lobby for single-payer. Progressives will have to as Bill Maher said form the "true" Democratic party. If Obama seems ready to sign, then I think we all who are Democrats should REREGISTER as Independents and let it be know both to the WH and the party that our $$$ are not going support them or the party.

Phil in Vermont.Well,we've

Phil in Vermont.Well,we've got Bernie and Pat Leahy for Vt,so homestate election threats are no use here.The fact is the members of Congress have GREAT insurance,thanks to us,and plenty of spare dough thanks to the healthcare industry lobbyists.They're bought and paid for.Wish my draft number had been a little lower during Vietnam,would be getting some of that Canadian healthcare right now.Oh well.

what should Progressives do?

Ms. Beverly Williams I believe every Progressive Democrat that is physically able should find out if any of his/her Congress persons did not vote to include a: Public, Universal or Single Payer option in the bill. Then, they should call everyone they know in their own state and inform them of who isn't supporting the healthcare for all (public, NOT privately owned) option being included. We should all make signs and flyers and post them anywhere and everywhere we can legally. We should create an avalanche of awareness and ESPECIALLY call our Congress persons and inform them that we are broadcasting the fact that they aren't supporting us, the American people!

No mandate without a public

No mandate without a public option. No mandate without a public option.

No Single Payer, No "Reform"

Without a public option, all that any new legislation would do is further protect the insurance companies from the will of the people.

You Get What You'll Settle For

n/t

Whatever happened to ......

... Yes We Can!!!*


*but we won't


....... oh.


Never mind.

Does this not smack of the Presidential Debates?

"Attendees for the discussion will be hand-picked by ABC News. ABC News Senior Vice President Kerry Smith says "ABC News alone will select those who will be in the audience asking questions of the president." come on people, wake up! We being taken for yet another ride

Why does ABC News and corporate America get to drive the healthc

They are not interested in the welfare of the population. The government option is a red herring. The solution that will stimulate the economy, and give U.S. residents the health insurance they need is Single Payer, H.R.676 (see Thomas.Gov). With Single Payer you get no co-pays, no deductibles, no Rx costs, you get health care, dental care, mental health care, long term care, you have no preexisting conditions and no insurance premiums. You are no longer trapped in a job solely for health care, you have no insurance premiums to a for-profit health insurance company. You will have a payroll deduction from your paycheck unless you are unemployed. In fact, this may serve to cause government to stop companies from their continued practice of outsourcing jobs from America. You get insurance for the 47+ million people currently w/o health insurance. With the Government Option, you still have the copays, the deductibles, the limits, the doughnut holes, (I know about this, my wife has Aetna insurance through here employer, what a joke fees every time you turn around, out of network, over the limit, you name it) you may gain access even with preexisting conditions, but who knows what hurdles one might need to traverse. The bill in Congress currently being marked up which may or may not include a government option, is I'm told thousands of pages long. H.R. 676 the Single Payer solution is about 28 pages. Read it for yourself at thomas.gov. search on bill number H.R.676. The American should demand single payer health insurance, and the President should know that if it is not offered at the end of this fiasco, then he will be a one-term president and all senators and representatives should understand the many many people will work to replace them in the next elections.

SINGLE PAYER

"Public Option" is a dumping ground for the sick, to boost health mafia profits. Wherever "Public Option" has been tried service has quickly deteriorated, prices have remained high, and health mafia profits have skyrocketed.

The arguments over "Public Option" are a deliberate distraction - part of an $83 million astroturf campaign to deny us Single Payer. If Romney is such a fan of "Public Option" how can it possibly be good for working Americans? Take a minute or two to look at how his "Public Option" turned out in MA and elsewhere.

The majority of Americans want Single Payer. We need Single Payer and we deserve Single Payer. Nothing less.

Those are merely claims, not

Those are merely claims, not facts. What it is a dumping ground for, is Americans who do not trust insurance companies. What is a deliberate distraction, is your claims, which is part of a dis-information campaign to deny Americans a public option. You merely make things up. What MA has is called a mandate - not a public option.

Check your facts

MA has both a mandate and a "Public Option". The Democrats are pushing for Romney-care because a mandate with a "Public Option" dump for the sick is by far the most profitable plan for the health mafia.

So many sick people have been dumped into "Public Option" that now MA is having to dump people out of "Public Option" into "Nothing". Hundreds of thousands of MA citizens have been branded as tax cheats for being unable to afford mandatory health insurance.

"Public Option" is disgusting - a dumping ground for the sick. We need Single Payer, nothing less.

Also, an MA style mandate

Also, an MA style mandate with not even an MA style option, is ON the table, and if you dont like the MA program how are you going to like that.

You omitted mention of the

You omitted mention of the MA mandate, you mentioned it only because I did, and you continue to omit the details of what you call the MA public option - which is that MA doesnt have much of a public option at all whereas MA does have a heck of a mandate -- why omit the facts and instead make claims and tell others to check?

You're making a fool of yourself

MA's mandate is weaker than Obama's. Depending on how you count, the MA mandate only reduced uninsured from 6.4%-10.4% to 5.4%-5.7% in the first year.

And MA's "Public Option" is stronger than Obama's. Obama's "Public Option" is revenue-neutral whereas MA's is heavily subsidized. And MA's "Public Option" still can't afford to treat all the sick people dumped by the for-profit sector.

You're 100% wrong on the facts. Please re-read all your Atmost11 comments on this page and then tell your Obamabot team leader that you'd feel more comfortable if you were reassigned to a different subject area. OK?

The Only Hope For Us

Health care reform with a public option is the only hope for my husband and I and millions of other Americans who work hard, pay taxes and cannot afford basic health care. We are already facing the fact that we will die earlier than we should if such an option is not passed. Has our Congress become so elitist that it is willing to consign millions of hardworking Americans to unnecessary suffering and early death? That is the basic question here.

government option

no, it will just end up enhancing profits of the private insurers and big pharma

the government option is the only thing that can show that the private healthcare industry ADDS billions of dollars to the cost of healthcare

People really want a National Health Care Plan

but, the people are willing to "settle" for a public option...however, if the Insurance companies get their way... a "public option will be so watered down, so lousy that it will make little difference in overall health care reform...giving President Obama (and his DLC Democrats) a needed political cover..."see I did something, I almost fixed Health care!..aren't I a good President...? I deserve to be re-elected..right!?" I think we should be pushing for the same type of Health Care that France, England, Canada,etc..and all other "industrialized nations" enjoy..SCREW the private, for-profit, free market Health industries, "the get unblievably rich by sucking the life blood out of the middle, working class" crowd..we are talking about our own and our children's HEALTH and well-being, for God's sake