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Disgusting Aborted "Foetus" Ad Appropriating Obama's Life Story to Oppose Abortion Rights Rejected by NBC for Super Bowl

A BUZZFLASH NEWS ALERT
by Meg White

Earlier this week I wrote an update about what crazy Christian fundamentalists are up to, now that they have what they see as an enemy in the White House.

Among the list of wackiness was a bizarre and offensive video from CatholicVote.org that suggests that President Barack Obama's mother would have aborted him if it had been legal at the time of her pregnancy.

Now there's uproar because NBC reportedly rejected the ad for its Superbowl Sunday slate. Donald Wildmon, founder of the American Family Association, sent out this lie about the ad in an e-mail alert:

"The 30-second ad features ultrasound pictures from a baby in its mother's womb. There is nothing either graphic or political and the word abortion is not even used.  In fact, no words are spoken, only graphics that appear on-screen. Yet, the message is extremely powerful."

Nothing political about it? Please. You can watch it here, and make up your own mind:

A BUZZFLASH NEWS ALERT




The Bible says...

This will be my last post since my belief system obviously discounts anything I have to say. The last time I checked I still had first amendment rights just like the rest of you, but because I call myself Christian you all come armed with venomous words. No use arguing with people who are so blinded by their ignorance they have become complete fools. You don't really want to get into a discussion about what the Bible says, do You? Jesus said more about hell than any other subject. He said if anyone so much as suggested harm to a little child they would be better off with a milllstone around their neck....the child you call a fetus is one of those children God saw "in their mother's womb." He said lots of things about immorality, lust, hatred, homosexuality. adultery, etc. Like people who practice those things will not inherit the kingdom of God. You may be entitled to your own set of opinions but you are not entitled to your own set of facts. Comedic fiction? I don't consider any of it funny or entertaining--sick is more like it. The Bible says we are to think on whatever is true, honest, just, pure lovely and of good report. None of these things were very evident in those commercials. You know nothing of my lifestyle or what I give my time and money to or how I feel about war and suffering. You assume because I am Christian I am a moralist and because I am a Republican and uncaring war monger. And because I consider purity a desirable quality in a young man that I'm naive and ignorant. Jesus said in John 8:24 "If you do not believe I am who I say that I am, you will die in your sins." Romans 6:23 says the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of eternal life comes through Jesus Christ our Lord. He loves you enough that He came to earth to die for you so you could be forgiven. (John 3:16) I offer these things because I do care what goes into the minds and the hearts of children. I'm sorry that you think all people like me are hypocrites. That doesn't seem fair to me.

NONSENSE. Jesus did not come here to talk about hell.

Jesus came here to tell us the GOOD NEWS about the Kingdom of Heaven, which is "at hand" and "among us." GOOD News. Not bad news about hellfire, damnation and punishment. Judge not, remember? Why don't you study the synoptic Gospels if you want to know who Jesus was and what he taught? That's Mark, Matthew, and Luke. Try it. Maybe you'll fall in love with him and transform your life from within. Couldn't hurt.

Super bowl adds

In all due respect, I refuse to get into a discussion about the ad that NBC did not run. Instead, I wanted to comment on the ads which they did run during the game. Especially the ones for Doritos. I have two adolescent boys who are very impressionable and who I am trying to raise to be decent young men. So they see vandalism of property in the workplace, assault to an employer, and lecherous behavior and soft pornography all in a period of less than 30 minutes. Watching a game where the two leaders of the teams, Kurt Werner and Ben Rothlinsberger are both outstanding Christians and examples of the highest levels of morality and decency. I'm sorry you think Republicans and Christians are public enemy #1--I hope you change your tune before you have children of your own. Respectfully, Deone Emineth Mother, Christian and Republican

Republicans and the Rich Young Ruler in the Bible

If you are a xtian, then you should know your bible..remember the story in the bible of the rich young ruler who came to jesus? he told jesus "all the commandments i have kept from my youth up !" jesus said," but one thing thou lacketh..go sell all you have and give to the poor"..the bible said the rich young ruler went away sorrowful..because he had many possessions..(he wasnt willing to go help the poor)..THAT IS EXACTLY LIKE THE REPUBLICANS OF TODAY.Why old Bushwacker and also John McCrackpot wanted to "privatize" social security--the very thing people have to live on for sustenance..they were certainly NOT LIKE JESUS AT ALL!! quite a dichotomy between them and the character jesus i read about in the bible.not willing too bestow their goods the have been blessed with to help feed the poor and needy.depart from me, ye who work iniquity--i never knew you !!! Christian Republican, you sure got quiet in here !!

You make what i said so true--demented mind control

You make what i said earlier so true and this is by allowing yourseld to be brainwashed/controlled by your church and your preacher..why aren't you out doing what jesus said if you are a xtian and feeding the hungry,clothing the naked, and helping the poor..instead sitting there in front of your TV then telling the world that you are a "christian" by having a user name saying I AM A CHRISTIAN..let me tell you..jesus said you will be known by your love for him and by your actions..not by telling aomeone "i am a christian,.....etc".he will say to you "depart from me, you who work iniquity, i never knew you".but no, you have to sit in front of a TV-not out doing the work of jesus by helping those in need-then criticizing what you see on TV because you have been programmed to see it as you "see it".get a life.evidently you are not a christian.actions speak louder than words ever will.your tongue is so long you cant get it all up on the altar to be prayed for.and this came from an avowed atheist who knows "the true word of "god"--except i dont believe in a god".

Make that "Christian" and Republican

Dear Deone Emineth Mother, Christian and Republican -- most of us do not consider Christians to be public enemies. Christians -- REAL Christians -- are good people. These are the ones who believe in "judge not, feed the poor, clothe the naked, love your neighbor as yourself." These are the ones who know that real morality goes deeper than mere appearances. These Christians are definitely NOT whited sepulchers. Real Christians follow what Jesus actually taught. You see, it's "Christians" we object to -- judgmental, holier-than-thou, selfish modern-day Pharisees -- and that's why we put the word in quotes when we refer to them. Get the difference? Also, it's a mistake to assume that those who do not happen to agree with you on your self-chosen "Christian" issues could not possibly be parents and grandparents, because most of us are. Equally respectfully, Senz, Christian and Democrat.

Corrupted by Doritos ads?

You do realize the Doritos ads are comedic fiction, right? The guy throwing the snow globe into the vending machine at work was a seup for the ad's punchline. Don't think it's funny? Fine, .... but anyone over the age of two should be able to recognize the ad for what it is, a joke, not an endorsement of vandalism.

Same applies to the "assault", of the employer, which, even if it were real wouldn't be an "assault" because the guy hit his employer with the snow globe by accident.

Finally, "soft porn"?!?! On national, broadcast television?!?! You mean where the woman's clothes fly off when the guy bites the Dorito and they show her underwear for about a second? Hate to tell you, but that's far from "soft porn". Moreover, if you have two adolescent boys, they've seen (and thought about) far "worse" than that ......... on a regular basis. Probably every time they mas............ Oh, wait. You probably don't know about that, and I wouldn't want to ruin the surprise.

Corrupted by Doritos ads?

Too funny, Deone.

Christians,religions,Rethugs are scum of the earth !!

Karl Marx said "religion is the opiate(crutch)of the people" all wars and killings have been done in the damn name of some religion or taking someone else's property.they are all one in the same. Christians always try to force their beliefs on others, as do other religions.Rethugs cant even think..All religions cant have their members think freely..they have to be TOLD how to think..they tell their child at an early age they MUST BELIEVE in a god,jesus,alla,b uddah, or whatever.the child doesnt have a choice.you can tell a child a stone pillow is just as soft as a feather pillow..you can tell them thereis a jesus or a santa...that doesnt make it right...doesnt prove the existance of a god, jesus or anything called a diety.i am goddamned fucking tire of these Rethuglicans trying to tell my gay ass who the fuck i can sleep with and how high to jump and who the fuck i can MARRY AND SUCK..these kind of people need to be ushered off to the Planet Mongo or maybe the Island of Greenland and let them eat cold fish and die. they get in my way.Rethuglican have ruined this country with the past 8 years and many other years of their fucking economic policies..These Rethuglican "CHRISTIANS" are not going out and doin the work of jesus who said to FEED THE HUNGRY, CLOTHE THE NAKED, AND HELP THE POOR..but they sure want to make "wedge issues" about abortion and gayness and Gay marriage..the economy can be in shambles, people losing their jobs, peoples houses being foreclosed on because of Republican and a few Dem policies.Rethuglicans want to take away and not give..if i read the bible correctly, and i am an avowed atheist and gay, jesus was a liberal and went about giving to others. yet Republican go about the world making wars and taking away life, limb, and property!!!!!!! Bush was a terrorist and sent ships with guns pointed at Iran..that was a terror to Iran.He killed 1.2 MILLION innocent Iraquis and said "god" told him to do it because he prayed to "god" every day..what a fucking fuck up and terrorist he was. Republicans and Christians, how much more of this contry are you gonna tear down? REPUBLICANS,GO FUCK YOURSELF WITH A PITCH FORK AND DONT HAVE ANY PLEASURE IN THE FUCK.. YOU HAVE FUCKED THIS COUNTRY UP SO MUCH WE MAY NEVER GET BACK ON OUR FEET THANKS TO YOUR FUCKING RIGHT-WING ASSES.MY LANGUAGE IS JUST LIKE GEORGE BUSH TALKED SO DONT BLAME ME.GO AWAY YOU SCUMBAG RETHUGS AND CHRISTIANS WHO DONT WANT TO DO THE WORK OF "JESUS "..ALL YOU CAN DO IS WHAT YOUR SCREAMING PREACHER UP THERE SCREAMING FROM THE PULPIT TELLS YOU TO DO. YOU CANT THINK FOR YOURSELF.HE TELLS YOU HOW TO VOTE.BEING Anti-gay and anti-abortion is not doing the WORK OF JESUS AT ALL.YOU HAVE BEEN BRAINWASHED!! THERE IS NO HOPE FOR YOU SO GO CRAWL UP IN A HOLE SOMEWHERE AND DIE..GET THE HELL OFF THIS EARTH.THERE IS NO HEAVEN AND NO HELL.BUT YOU SURE HAVE MADE HELL FOR US HERE ON EARTH !!YOU WILL SUFFER BECAUSE OF IT.

Fetus ad should run!

Susan S. Pastin Chicago IL I am proudly pro-choice and pro-reproductive freedom. But CatholicVote's fetus ad powerfully presents a conflicting point of view. Just like MoveOn.Org's ads should not be rejected, so neither should this ad. It's a First Amendment issue!

Disgusting and Hateful

It never ceases to amaze me, people will go to any lengths to spew lies, hatred, discredit and destroy a person because of religion, color of skin and political views. And, these are the very people who profess to be "Christians." Why hasn't the Catholic church put their energy in making a video regarding priests molesting little boys? Is it just me, but there are some priests who have tendency of being gay.

Catholic Church: "Mother of Harlots"

In reading Revelations in the bible it describes a system of the Catholic(universal) church and describes that system as "the mother of harlots".. ALSO MEANING SHE HAD BEEN BEEN IN BED WITH WORLD SYSTEMS and she also had children(the other Sunday-go-to-meting-churches who accepted her Sunday worship as being legitimate)..as opposed to biblical "keep the SABBATH holy" Saturday worship Jesus kept. There is no biblical scripture to legitimize Sunday-worship.every thing in biblical days was Sabbath-looking"..crops rested in the seventh year and in the 70th month.so later in 325 A.D.Constatine changed that,issued a decree and made people worship on Sunday--the venerable day of the sun.he had been a sun worshipper and came into the church and changed it all..but the bible had predicted "god's laws would be changed by those in power".thus you have the "mother of harlots" revealed in the bible as a world church who would impose their will on the whole world. and there re 2000 denominations+ that follow her(the RCC).I am not surprised at what these churches do today at all even tho i dont believe the bible..i use it like a funny book.the RCC is so rotten to the core. for sake of brevity i will stop here.yes, i know some will say one can "interpret" the bible in different ways but the basic revelations from history still hold true.

Double-edged sword

Someone should quickly make another 50 seconds ad - about fetal picture of Hitler. And the difference it would have made if he was aborted.

How About Some Sonograms of Our Soldiers

Let 'em show the joy of a mother giving birth to her son or daughter. Show the baby pictures, elementary school, high school, graduation, academy or whatever they did. Then show their graves, or their altered physical and mental state. Show Bush laughing, "No WMD here, maybe over here, ha, ha, ha." No woman takes the decision to have an abortion lightly, but it beats the hell out of having a baby in a church toilet and flushing it because you're afraid to tell staunch pro-lifer parents that you're pregnant.

Abortion opponents ought to

Abortion opponents ought to be able to show picutres of abortions being carried out - just as animal rights acitivists ought to be able to show pictures of battery hens and steers being castrated - just as anti-war protesters ought to be able to show us pictures of innocent people ripped to shreds by American bombs.

Same old story; same old song

Religion-besotted numbskulls aren't going away-EVER. They're like warts; lop one off your hand, and another appears on your elbow. They've been with us in one form or another for the entire history of humankind, and will continue to be a millstone around our collective necks for the indefinite future, No amount of education or irrefutable factual knowlege, gets through to them because they're RIGHT 100% of the time and in 100% of their beliefs. No compromise with or appeasment of these fools is possible, because THEY CAN'T BE REASONED WITH, ever.

Common anti-choice mistake

Anti-choice advocates often try to frame the question in terms of who the fetus might become. However, the decision to terminate a pregnancy is rarely, if ever, based on presumed qualities of the fetus. No, the decision to end a pregnancy is based on the woman's readiness and willingness to have a child -- or, in many cases, another child -- at this time. It's a family planning decision, and its purpose is to ensure the willingness and readiness of mothers and family units, both of which are absolutely necessary for the well being of a human child. It's a decision that respects children and families. Barack Obama's mother wanted her child, so she had him. She was ready and willing to be a good mother, and she raised him well. This is what it's all about: the woman's willingness to go ahead with it. No one has the right to make that decision for her. (By the way, I didn't see an aborted fetus in the ad, so I believe the Buzzflash headline is somewhat misleading.)

I agree!

Susan S. Pastin Chicago IL Your argument is the most rational, and most powerful on the core issue of the right to choose to have, or not have, an abortion.

Ad

TexasAtheist: Whoa(!). I had to slow down my reading your post cos I agreed w/it, but was hoping I didn't miss anything. You're right about one thing: if Jesus came back (even if he ever existed), Sarah Palin, James Dobson, Rush Painkillerjunkie, etc. would be the first to have him publicly executed as a GOD FORBID(!) Liberal Progressive. Hang in there & keep posting, ok? I know you have been going thru some tough times, yourself

Thanks for the concern.

Thanks for the concern..yeah, i kinda get strung out at times.it depends on my demeanor at the time--it's part of my being bi-polar..sometimes happy-sometimes sad.i get saddened every day having to look at these run-down walls of this old trailer and it makes me sick.so i have my ham radio or my DIRECTV.and the computer.im not a mental case by any means..lots of peole have BPDO. but i was in "religion" for many years and played keyboard and can still do that.it's a release.i played some old "gospel" songs for my nurse the other day and she cried.i sung to her and she cried also.she said, "boy you are very talented"..i said yes but you know how i feel about religion.(she knows im atheist).the other day i cried for 4 days about my situation.almost wanted to take my life.i felt death would be better.but i didnt.i get so despondent here and almost noone to talk to.sometimes i just want to give up.so i come in here and spout off.have to get it off somehow.but thanks for your salutations.take care.

Another distorted screed

One should note that it's not an 'aborted foetus' as your headline screams-(too shrill and totally inaccurate) but it is an ultra-sound of 6-7 month baby which by any measure today is way too old for a legal abortion. And by the way when Obama's mama was carrying him, there was no such thing as an ultra-sound. She was married to his father, not a single mom then - and unless she was psychic about several years in the future - could not have known her husband would leave - so, as usual, another distorted AFA screed... Joshua's Grandma "In this world of sin and sorrow, there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican." H.L. Mencken

Thou Shalt Not Lie (But, I am not "Thou", so it's OK!)

They said "this child (fetus) will become the first African American President". But that image is most certainly not the unborn Barack from four decades ago.

Did Barack give his permission for them to use his image at the end of their commercial? No.

Thou Shalt Not Steal.
(But, I am not "Thou", so it's OK!)

Of course, they only have One Commandment.
Do as I say, Not as I Do.

Abortion Prevention

The Dems haven't yet figured out how to frame their issues - they should have titled the contraceptive package in the stimulus bill - Abortion Prevention - How many Repubs can afford to vote against abortion prevention? Abortions go down under pro-choice presidents - because they fund family planning services - and using birth control prevents unwanted pregnancies that may end in abortions. FP is also highly cost effective - Every $ invested saves $5.39 in subsequent medical costs. And there's a positive effect on society overall since wanted children tend not to be neglected or abused. It's a no-brainer! Joshua's Grandma "In this world of sin and sorrow, there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican." H.L. Mencken

Typical Anti Choice BS

The same Anti Choice Cult of the Fetus worshippers are the same ones who don't give a rats ass about a kid after it's born. They will shoot all the bullshit they can about Freddy and Freida Fetus when they are in the womb, but when Freddy or Freida pop out, well, those same anti choicers could care less about what happens to the kids.

Anti choicers don't care if kids are beaten to death.

Anti choicers dont care if kids get molested by priests

Anti Choicers refuse to pay taxes to feed hungry kids

Anti Choicers want to destroy what's left of the public schools so only rich kids get a fair shot

Anti Choicers will throw Freddy and Freida onto a garbage dump once they are out of the holy womb.

Always remember...

The right to life ends at birth!

Ugly!

This ad is arrogant, pompous, personal, and WRONG! It's nasty, invasive, unnecessary and obtrusive.

Offensive ***?

The most offensive aspect of this clip is the trademarking of the English language. It is the TM for "Life. Imagine the potential." Or was that simply for "Imagine the potential." TMs of words suck - I like words and grammar, most of the time. I was abandoned first by my father (pre-birth) with my grandmothers urging and then by my mother (after spending 6 months with her) and I have to tell you when I "Imagine the potential" such specters as Charles Manson, Idi Amin and our old friend, and one of my musical favorites, Beethoven the soon to become deaf (the xth child of a mother with a serious STD) cross my mind. Who paid for this ad, and who of the above are they a fan club member of?!!! Roll over Beethoven. He rocks.

The intent is clear

The ad was, in my opinion, perfectly acceptable until it mentioned voting. As an advocacy ad pleading for the individual life of individual children, I don't see offense. As an instrument to remove the moral agency from the mother and place it on the society it is offensive. "Imagine the potential" is good advice if you are weighing the choices, but just a smoke screen when an organization is trying to usurp those choices from others.

"A picture's worth a thousand words"

Considering President Obama is PRO-CHOICE this is offensive to him and the memory of his mother, and it's political beCAUSE he's pro-choice, as if chiding him.



Why didn't they use Bush instead? He's anti-choice, so wouldn't he have been a better candidate for the ad?



"We won't throw the first punch, but we'll throw the last." ~ Democratic Presidential Candidate Obama 10/2008

"thousand words"

LibCat, You just nailed it with 45 words. Absolutely perfect!

Whats the problem?

Is this disgusting because the ad is feeding back the rhetoric that has been coming from the pro-choice crowd? I see no aborted fetus' here, no bloody coathangers, etc. Just a few statements of fact. Pretty powerful message. Maybe it will make someone think about the consequences of their actions before they make their CHOICE. Why do you have a problem with that? Better an advertising campaign to convince people to choose life than an attempt to overturn Roe V Wade.

Your right-wing ass sounds like you're pro-death(pro-war)!!

Your comment sounds like you are a goddamn fucking right-winger who is pro-death(pro-war)!! your ass supported Bush the terrorist in his murdering of 1.2 million innocent Iraquis !! who didnt you mention that? why? you dont make a hell of a lot of sense..but you people always bring up "wedge issues"like abortion and gayness and gay marriage..the goddamn economy can be in crumbles but we gotta stop the "abortions" and keep the queers from gettin married.you forget about the homeless and the plight of the poor and helping them as jesus said to do because you attribute that to "socialism"(doin the work of jesus--feeding the hungry,clothing the naked,and helping the poor.your fucking ass is certainly not like jesus un any way,shape,form or fashion.killing 1.2 million people is also murder.it is NOT BEING "PRO-LIFE"!so how can your RIGHT-WING ass equate abortion with NOT being "pro-life" while you support the killing of Americans and Iraquis and Iranians..Bush moved some ships near Iran with guns in that direction..if that is not a terror to the Iranian people then you dont know your ass form a hole in the ground. SO SINCE bUSHY BELIEVED IN KILLING WHY SHOULDNT I? WHY SHOULDNT I THINK LIKE YOU AND BUSH DO AND BELIEVE IN THE RIGHT TO KILL ? it is people like you who have ruined our country and brought it down to the economic level it is today.your fucking mother should have had an abortiion and we wouldn't have to listen to your mother- fucking right-wing diatribe about abortion.why dont you just go commit suicide and we would be better off.!!!there are too many people in the world going hungry and you over look that..how many hungry people have you fed today? probably none.how many have you clothed today? how many poor have you helped..jesus said if you give a cup of cold water in my name you have done it unto me. if i was to ever meet you i know what i would do to your fucking ass.i am not a christian but i know damn well what jesus preached and what he stood for.he would be unhappy with your ass..he may say one day "depart from me, you who do evil, i never knew you". you aint about doin the business of jesus.and that comes from an avowed atheist !!! i am prolife because i dont believe in war and killing.the people who fuck around should think about what they are doing and have the money to support the kid they want to bear.so abortion in my opinion is okay in many cases.the couple should bring up the child to vote right,to have a good education so they can make the proper choices in life and not murder and killing like you support by support Bush and his pro-death wars. the kid should be a left winger and not pro-death like you !! so letslet all the "fetuses" live so we can have them grow up without religion and be a left-winger.you right-wingers are not sensical at all. all wars were about religion..the bible is all tainted with wars..the bible even mentions the kingdom of god is to be taken by force and wars. it says there was war in heaven even.not that i believe there is a literal heaven.so you are as full of shit as a thanksgiving turkey.you dont belong on this earth.there is no life after death. you have been brainwashed about religion. you can tell a child anything when he is young and make his mind believe anything..doesnt mean there is a real live god,jesus,allah,or buddah.thats the brainwashing i am referring to.you right wingers have been brainwashed by your fucking dirty preachers trying to make a buck and by your parents and grandparents and screaming/hollerin preacher brainwashing you being so narrow minded telling you how to vote and how to think!! you right wingers cant think for your own selves.. you have to be told how to think--that is mind control !!!! RELIGION IS THE OPIATE(CRUTCH) OF THE PEOPLE,KARL MARX SAID.I am not a Marxist but his statement holds true.SO FUCK OFF RIGHT WINGER ANTI-ABORTION FREAK !!You are the goddamn problemn..not the pro-choice or the abortionists.

Stingin Lizard, you sure got quiet in here !!

Right-wing Stingin lizard242, you sure the fuck got quiet in here..what happened? did you take my advice and go commit suicide? your silence is deafening !! or maybe you're out doin the work of jesus--feeding the hungry,clothing the naked, and helping the poor this am.maybe someone put a rag in your mouth to shut you up.or maybe youy took a few of your "babies" to the dumpster since you couldnt afford to pay for their college education nor their food and water, nor their clothes.so you just dumped them like someone in here said.or maybe you're on another blog promoting war.well, i for one dont miss you so FUCK OFF,RIGHT WINGER.STAY GONE.

Whoa there!

Perhaps you should consider easing up on the caffeine this late.

You said

everything I'd wanted to yell to the repugs. They slither through life, sneaking, lying, stealing and bullying. I agree with you, Pro-Life my ass they are Anti-Choice. To make things worse repugs are famous for the do-as-I-say-and-not-as-I-do mumble jumble. They are the worse "sinners" (their term.) Alas, they can be forgiven through the grace of their god. HA [BTW, have you seen haggard interview? Unbelievable.] A repug posted that laws have to be made because people will go all willy-nilly. Can you believe that? A repug actually posted this. This from a party that praises the fail policy of unregulation. I can't believe a poster actually posted that shit. GMAFB! It gave me a headache. It's all about CONTROL to them. And these senseless assholes will claim they want a small government. man oh man. They are the greedy/frenzy party. chimpy and his repug gang have a nerve to say, oopsey we started a needless war in Iraq, but we won't leave until we find a reason why we're there in the first place. repugs have one purpose; oppose the dems. They aren't even the opposite of the dems, they are without people cause. Your examples are spot on. Gees, let me stop. I look forward to reading more of your Interesting posts. Thank you.

Don't hold back!

In style, not so much, but in substance I whole-heartedly agree. It would help if they'd notice that under PRO-CHOICE administrations, abortions go DOWN...